[Juli H]

the 'no' thread got me to thinking about judging blinds (hunt test blinds)

here is a blind diagram (110 yds)..... yellow dots show sit whistles...blind is run from north to south.



first whistle - dog heads toward water and scallops around edge of pond...handler gives over into the water, dog goes back

second whistle - handler whistles twice and casts over, dog goes in

third whistle - handler gives back which dog takes well to second pond

fourth whistle - handler stops dog with safety whistle..gives left back, dog attempts to go around pond (there are a bunch of lily pads/reeds to the right so handler opts for a left back to avoid losing dog in vegetation)

fifth whistle - handler gives over into water, dog digs back

sixth whistle - handler gives over and dog digs back again

7th whistle - handler gives No,over and dog enters water with angle back...

8th whistle - handler gives back, dog goes fairly straight for a time, then anlges toward shore

9th whistle - handler gives left back, dog picks up bird

there are no slipped whistles....no yelling, dog's main problem was in entering water....

Don't really care what the handler 'should have done'......LOL


opinions on how you would judge if master level dog....

BTW - although do have these ponds to train inI have not run this blind, ...they are actually only running water depth and the section between the ponds is aspen trees that are 25 feet tall along with willow brush...so I can't run a blind as described anyway...LOL

Juli

 

[kimsmith]

By looking at the 3 dots on land, on the right side, I would say you had to many refusals to pass Master or Finished. Why wouldn't you have whistles before they beached on the right side.

 

[Juli H]

like I said..don't care what the handler should have done....LOL....

is it three or four total cast refusals? once at the first pond, twice at the second....do you consider the angle back taken by the dog at the second pond a refusal (dog was given a straight back)



Juli

 

[jeff t.]

Am I reading this right...9 whistles in 110 yards ?

 

[Steve Hester]

4 cast refusals out of 9 casts. Too many for a Finished dog.

 

[tidewater]

The angle back on the second pond the dog took vs, straight back that was given, big deal. Everyones arm position is different, dog was making progress to the blind. Judges that pencil whip a dog for angle back vs. straight backs don't have anything better to do. They do not know how you train your dog, as far as they know that may have been your straight back cast. I have a husband that cannot raise is arm up straight due to prior shoulder surgery, everything looks like a typical angle back.

 

[Dman]

Blind as described and as shown...failed.

 

[labman52738]

I am counting 5 cast refusals, I agree with everyone else, too many to pass.

 

[Brad B]

I don't think your text matches the number of dots but anyway....I don't think that's master level work.

 

[Bubba]

I'm an initial line kinda girl. The dog needs to get roughly half way to the blind on the initial cast (in this case at least get wet and make real progress across the first pond) to get a 7. The 3 cast refusals on the second pond sends you back to the dugout.

Sorry Maam- it's a big dog test regards

Bubba

 

[Juli H]

I see what you mean Brad....

from the line to the first whistle should not necessarily be associated with the first whistle... LOL

Juli

 

[Juli H]

I'm an initial line kinda girl. The dog needs to get roughly half way to the blind on the initial cast (in this case at least get wet and make real progress across the first pond) to get a 7. The 3 cast refusals on the second pond sends you back to the dugout.

Sorry Maam- it's a big dog test regards

Bubba

thanks for the insight Bubba....Good initial line is important...

I didn't say whether or not I felt the dog should pass because I wanted to see what other people had to say....

So far, all in line with my thoughts....

For a late transition dog, I would find this to be acceptable..but definitely not for a finished dog - yes the dog is making headway to the blind, but it is not pretty due to the fact the dog wants to scallop around the ponds.......

Juli

 

[Juli H]

What if the dog had taken a good line to the second pond? everything else being the same

pass or fail?

Juli

 

[kimsmith]

What cast the handler gives doesn't make a difference at all. When I'm judging I don't pay much attention to handler anyway. I'm looking to see if the dog is making progress to the blind. When the dog beached on the right side on both pieces of water he no longer was trying to keep this dog on line. He should have yelled No when the dog started to beach and then give him the cast. Sorry I had to say that....

 

[Ken Newcomb]

Although I may not like the 3 cast refusals, as drawn the dog was never more then 15ft off line (I measured). I may not consider this instant failure.

 

[Juli H]

that would have been my next question....

what would be considered a reasonable distance for the dog to be off line? hunt test line to blind.....
Juli

 

[Evan]

Am I reading this right...9 whistles in 110 yards ?

Plus 4...possibly 5 cast refusals; Far too weak to pass in my judgment.

Evan

 

[Juli H]

Evan....which casts do you think were casts refusals?

is a straight back taken as an angle back a cast refusal? Is the poor initial line a cast refusal?

Juli

 

[Dman]

I would judge it as a PIL, avoidance of cover (water) and at least 4 cast refusals. 1st, 4th, 5th and 6th casts at minimum = CR.
It all adds up to a lack of control.

Keep in mind none of us were there to actually see this blind. It's very difficult to accurately judge a run you didn't see.

 

[kimsmith]

The only problem Ken is if this dog started to beach and the only whistle the dog got was when It got on land then I could see this dog failing. The dog didn't slightly beach, it just about took a right turn and went to shore. The last part of the blind would have been OK if if wouldn't have been for the first part. I don't see the initial line being that bad.