[PocketLab]

What supplements do you use and why?

 

[Brad B]

Missing link. My vet recommends it and it seems to help the dogs.

 

[windycanyon]

Probiotics/digestive enzymes (I use BacPak Plus), fish oil/vit E, MSM, and a "green" antioxidant mix w/ lots of B vits. Glucosamine sulfate for growing youngsters and the oldsters or anyone whose had an injury like my one that broke a toe years ago (arthritis). Also cranberry caps for my baby girls thru ~6 mos or so since they can be prone to UTIs. I think that about does it...

I also make them purees of garden produce when it's abundant. I don't think a dog can get too many B vits. Mine were also happy to see some mature Gala apples come in today! They all scored a leftover from my test samples.

 

[MikeB]

Over 25 years I have tried many many supplements and this is what I have settled on for a few years now. It just works.

Prozyme & Animal Naturals Show Stopper. Digestive enzyme and All In One Supplement. It just works.

Prozyme - http://www.prozymeproducts.com/

Show Stopper - http://www.k9power.com/

 

[seandcso75]

I give my little girl Fish oil and Gulcosamine added to her Pro Plan Performance.

 

[Doc E]

For those that give "Fish Oil", be sure that there is enough Vit E (100 iu / 600mg to 1200 mg of Fish Oil) to protect the oil from peroxidizing (turning rancid) once it's in the dog.



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[MikeB]

Hey Doc E,
Would that also apply to humans. I take large doses of Fish Oil to help lower triglycerides Does the Vit E also help us too?

 

[Doc E]

Hey Doc E,
Would that also apply to humans?
I take large doses of Fish Oil to help lower triglycerides
Does the Vit E also help us too?

Mike

The answer is yes and yes.
I'll try to make this somewhat understandable.
Fatty acids are made of a long chain of Carbon atoms and those Carbon atoms have other molecules hooked onto them.
Somewhere along that chain, a Carbon or two don't have enough other stuff attatched to them, so a Double Bond is formed. Where that double bond occurs is how a fatty acid is named. If the double bond occurs after the 3rd Carbon, it's an Omega-3 ---- if it's after the 6th Carbon it's an Omega-6 and so on.

So, an Omega-3 is like this : C-C-C=C-C-C-C-C etc etc.

But that double bond still isn't "complete" and it's hungry for Oxygen......... So it grabs onto an Oxygen and the oil becomes peroxidized (rancid) right inside the body.
So, if you're taking Omega-3's (Fish Oil) and you are not taking Vit E with it, you are gaining lots of "good stuff" from the fish Oil, but you are also gaining lots of bad stuff (free radicals) from the peroxidized oil.

So, once again, you should be taking 100 iu Vit E for each 600 mg to 1200 mg of Fish Oil.
When you get Vit E, read the label and get one that says d-alpha and NOT dl-alpha.

Any other questions, feel free to post up.



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[LabLady101]

I give Probios (powder form), Salmon oil, Vit E, Vit C, and a Gluc/Chon/MSM combo.

 

[Longgun]

So if the dogs are on a good quality fish based food do they need to be supplimented with fish oil?
deb

 

[Doc E]

So if the dogs are on a good quality fish based food do they need to be supplimented with fish oil?
deb

Hard to say -- Some might contain enough Omega-3's some might not.
Also important is if it's Salmon based, make sure it's from wild caught salmon and not farm raised. If it's made from other ocean fish, make sure that the fish have never been preserved with ethoxyquin. Some manufacturers try to "get around" this by saying, "we do not add ay ethoxyquin to our foods" ------ But they don't say if their fish supplier did or not.



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[Howard N]

But that double bond still isn't "complete" and it's hungry for Oxygen......... So it grabs onto an Oxygen and the oil becomes peroxidized (rancid) right inside the body.
So, if you're taking Omega-3's (Fish Oil) and you are not taking Vit E with it, you are gaining lots of "good stuff" from the fish Oil, but you are also gaining lots of bad stuff (free radicals) from the peroxidized oil.

So, once again, you should be taking 100 iu Vit E for each 600 mg to 1200 mg of Fish Oil.
When you get Vit E, read the label and get one that says d-alpha and NOT dl-alpha.

Doc, a couple of questions.

I checked out my vit E and it said dl-alpha not d-alpha like you said. What is the difference and why does it matter?

As much stinky stuff as dogs like to injest I'm sure their body has a way of getting rid of free radicals. Do you know what it is and how efficient it is? I can't remember what free radicals do in the body, vaguely something to do with aging, could you refresh me?

 

[Aaron Homburg]

Missing Link Plus, Lixotonic, and one other I can't think of right now....lol


Aaron

 

[Doc E]

Howard
dl is the synthetic form and compared to the natural form (d) the dl is hardly biogically active at all. It has very limited "scavenging" ability.

Free radicals are "killers" of cells in our bodies. Not only an increased rate of aging, but damage to the DNA and mitochoindria as well. Normally, the body can handle free radicals, but if antioxidants are unavailable, or if the free-radical production becomes excessive, damage can occur. Of particular importance is that free radical damage accumulates with age. Free radicals cause disease or contribute to the inability to resist or fight disease. They also inhibit the ability of cells to communicate with one another.



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[Doc E]

and one other I can't think of right now....lol

Aaron

You need more DHA.



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[Bob Samios]

Doc E,

EFA Complex seems to have what you suggest but is a little expensive. Is the a similar product available at the local drug store? EFA Complex is made by Progressvive Labratories in Irving, TX.

 

[Maxs Mom]

I try not to over supplement I want to be sure each thing is doing what I want it to do.

We give our older dogs Cosequin DS, and 1000 mg of MSM, Missing Link (reg), and Seapet 200 Fish oil. They also get monthly adequan injections. The Cosequin and MSM are in pill form or 'nummies' as we like to call them. The other gets fed on top of their food.

Quinn the pup is only on the Missing Link and fish oil for now. I suspect when she gets old enough to start competing in agility we will start her on Cosequin. I guess it can't hurt right? She is only 10 months right now. So sometime next summer.

I am thinking of adding cranberry to my goldens diet at least. These UTI's have got to stop...

 

[Doc E]

Doc E,

EFA Complex seems to have what you suggest but is a little expensive. Is the a similar product available at the local drug store?

Bob
There are two different products that go by the acronym EFAC. One is "Essential Fatty Acid Complex" and the other is "Esterified Fatty Acid Complex".
EFAC (Esterified Fatty Acid Complex) is markedly different than the EPA & DHA found in fish Oil, and is primarily used by the body for it's anti-inflamatory action.

EFAC is expensive - The product that I have in my office is $33 for 90 capsules and the dose is 3 per day for humans. The wife and I each take 3 per day and give 2 to old Casey boy. I see no need to give EFAC to the young (2 y/o) pup.

I found this interesting though : Old Casey boy (will be 11 in four more months) is extremely healthy. No joint problems, no aches & pains, etc.......... But in the last year+ he has "slowed down" and his stamina & endurance have definitely decreased.
We "free road" our dogs daily = The dogs run in front of us (and quarter through the Grouse woods) as we drive on old logging roads in the mountains. In the past, Casey's comfortable speed was 14 mph and he was good for about 8+ miles before he was ready to take a break. In the last year, his comfortable speed has gone down to 8 to 10 mph and he was ready for a break after 3 to 4 miles.
I started giving him 2 EFAC capsules a day a couple months ago. Now, his comfortable speed is 12 mph and he is good for 4 to 5 miles at a time, and he is much more willing to go up steep mountain sides looking for Grouse scent. The addition of EFAC is the only change made to his diet from what we were already doing (our dogs get LOTS of supplements).

Anyhow, EFAC & Fish Oil are markedly different in what they do.
As for "oils", old Casey gets Fish Oil (actually an Omega-3 Complex), Tuna Oil (markedly reduces the incidence of Geriatric Retinal Degeneration) and now I've added EFAC. So far, as it relates to speed, stamina and endurance, I've been impressed with the addition of EFAC.



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[Maxs Mom]

Doc I took great interest in your story of Casey. I am into the fish oil for the natural anti-inflamatory properties. I have dogs with issues I want to keep going as long as I can without medication. Is the EFAC you give an Rx? Where can someone get it?

I looked on GNC and found something not sure if it is the same thing. I will attach the label for your information, is this it?

Currently I use Seapet, would your complex be better? I want to do the best I can for my dogs. The Seapet info is also attached.

Thanks!

 

[Doc E]

Maxs Mom

SeaPet is not a bad product at all --- But it's only Fish Oil & Vit E (great combination). And it takes 1.5 tsp for an average sized retriever. The one I give is called "Complete Omega-3 Essentials". It's molecular distilled 1200 mg Fish Oil, 100 mg Flax Seed Oil, 100 mg Black Currant Seed Oil and 100 iu Vit E........ And you only need to give 1/4 tsp per day.
Their website says :
1. Pure, medicinal grade fish oil made from anchovies, a natural source of the essential fatty acids EPA and DHA. These fatty acids are essential to your pet's health e.g. skin, heart, coat, joints and immune system.

2. Omega-3 Fish Oil provides these essential fatty acids in the ready-to-use form (no biological conversion needed; plant sources omega-3 fatty acids must be converted to EPA and DHA in order to perform their critical functions).

3. Directions for dogs, cats and other pets: Under 30 pounds - 1/2 teaspoon, 30 pounds to 60 pounds - 1 teaspoon, 60 pounds to 90 pounds - 1 1/2 teaspoons, Over 90 pounds - 2 teaspoons. Does not contain vitamin C.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
1. They don't say how they make it "pure" -- could mean it's just oil from anchovies (like you could say that coconut oil is "pure" because the only oil is from coconuts and no other sources). Mine is Molecular Distilled and guaranteed to be free of heavy metals, dioxin, PCB's, and all other toxic contaminants.

2. They are only partially correct on this one -- 15% of Omega-3's from plant sources (ALA) are converted into EPA -- NONE are converted into DHA (can you say "truth in advertising")
The stuff I use contains 100 mg of Flax Seed Oil (ALA). ALA is utilized as itself and 15% is converted into EPA. Mine also contains Black Currant Seed Oil, and 100 iu Vit E to protect the Double Bond from peroxidation (becoming rancid) once it's in the body.
Also they don't say how many mg of EPA & DHA are in a daily dose.

SeaPet seems inexpensive, and the one I use seems expensive, but when you compare 1.5 tsp of SeaPet and 1/4 tsp of the one I use, you can see where I'm going.



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