[Renee P.]

Labrador pup is 5.5 mos old. I have taught her to heel on both sides, using a "leg signal": I'm stepping back with one leg on the side I want her to heel to.

Someone told me not to do this, that moving around on the line is bad, and to use separate commands or a hand signal for each side. So I started to teach her that but it is not going well as we both already developed the other habit.

I'm wondering how you all do this: do you use separate commands like "heel" vs. "side" vs. "front" to communicate to the dog where it should sit on a return from a retrieve or "here" command ? Or a hand/leg signal?

She was responding nicely to my posture cues but now she is confused by the old switchro I am pulling on her...so am I ... not sure what to do. I having been using Hillman's puppy training DVD, am about to move into a basics program with her.

Thanks this is my first time doing this kind of training, any advice appreciated.

 

[DoubleHaul]

Why not step back with one leg while holding your hand down at the side on which you want them to heel? After a while you can go just with the hand. Pretty much how I teach a dog to heel anyway, but no need to expect it over night.

 

[munsie]

For me, the ultimate goal is to not have to use my hands and a lot of body language. You may have a different idea of success. My approach is as follows (and it depends what you are trying to accomplish):

Here = front/finish position
Heel = heel position (whichever side you use; I use left)

If it were me, I would get rid of the body language when you can. So if you need it to shape the behavior in the beginning, fine. But couple it with the verbal command and then eventually drop the body language and try to do it with just the one-word command.

I see handlers using different commands like "come here," "here," "Fido - get over here" and a lot of other stuff. Use the same 1 word consistently and only once. Not "here, here, here." Also, "here" and "heel" sound similar so you may want to annunciate the difference in your way.

 

[DoubleHaul]

Heel = heel position (whichever side you use; I use left)

For a two sided dog, you would need to have two words to tell him what side you want. Certainly possible, but I don't see the problem putting down a hand as the dog is returning with the bird to let it know which side you want.

 

[RetrieverLuvr]

I have Front, Heel(left side) and Here(right side) Dogs will always respond better to visual or body posture cues...thats how dogs communicate. Add in your verbals and slowly make your visual cues less obvious.

The good old..."New cue, followed by Old Cue" works well too. Dont use them together...Give your verbal cue....then follow it by your visual cue. Eventually the dog will learn what you want.

 

[Doc E]

My wife uses "Heel Gee" and "Heel Haw".



.

 

[TroyFeeken]

If I want my dog to finish on one side or the other I'll use simple gestures like and extended hand over the left or right side. For a front finish, for some reason the dog understands that there aren't any more marks out there for him and front finishes all by himself but using a traffic cop stop hand usually does the trick. I feel dogs understand body language and hand signals better than verbal cue's.

 

[Byron Musick]

I have taught her to heel on both sides, using a "leg signal": I'm stepping back with one leg on the side I want her to heel to.
.

I don't see anything wrong, as a matter of fact I try to put myself in the next position to line up on the next bird, I use both my arm and leg to indicate to the dog which side is next. I think, correct me if wrong, that the line up when heeling is more important and if what you are doing works all should be good. Make your movements slow and deliberate as your dog returns, I think movement is a real problem when handling a dog on a blind, not so much returning a bird to you. These are my newbie thoughts on the subject.

 

[captainjack]

Keep with your program. If Bill Hillman says step back with a puppy, then step back.

With that said...

I stepped back and used all sorts of body language to teach heeling on both sides. I didn't use all sorts of different words because it just wasn't necessary. Your dog will come to understand that right hand out means heel on the right and left hand out means heel on the left. No verbal commands are needed if this is taught from puppyhood.

I agree with "someone" that, with an advanced dog (not a 5.5 mo puppy), you usually want to line up for the next bird and have your dog heel perfectly on the side that you want with nothing more than a hand out to that side. You want the dogs first look after turning to face the field for delivery to be the direction he will be sent. This is the reason we line the dog up on the next bird before taking delivery (with an advanced dog).

I say usually because there are times when I want to really emphasize the line to a tough bird, maybe a retired gun, that I will step back and then move up toward that tough bird to really lock the dog in.

My guess is that the someone who told you not to move had been told by someone else, but really doesn't understand why you should limit your movement.

If you take the the time to really understand the why behind this or any other advice, you'll be better able to determine if it fits in with your training program or not.

Good luck.

 

[DoubleHaul]

My guess is that the someone who told you not to move had been told by someone else, but really doesn't understand why you should limit your movement.

Good point. There are times when you don't want to move at the line, times it doesn't really matter and times when you want to (and even times when you would really rather not but have to anyway).

 

[FOM]

Keep communication simple....you guys are confusing me!

Heel - means heel - if you want two sided point with your arm which side you want the dog on. But if this is your first dog, you need to learn how to be proficient with a dog on a single side before you go and confuse yourself with two.

Here means move your head based on my body language, not your butt or feet. Cause you already told them to sit, which means sit!

Front finish - is a sit whistle before they get to ya ( a soft light little peep or the command sit) and unless you are doing competitive OB I wouldn't bother with a front finish.

Keep it simple....too complicated and you are spending more time trying to figure out what command you are suppose to be giving vs. reacting to what the dog is telling you at the line....

I use to subscribe to all that push and pull and here and heel - I determined doing the hockey pokey on the line was not only confusing myself, but my dog! Sit, Heel, Here....that's enough commands to try and keep straight....

Rorem preaches in his seminars to keep the communication simple, I didn't know exactly what he meant until I trained with Loveland...those that subscribe to all the nonsense of bouncing around at the line need to watch the top FT Pros around the country - their vocabulary and movement on the line is straight forward and simple.

And to this day when I get flustered I say here when I should say heel - baggage from doing the hokey pokey....only 10 years worth of bad habits to get over.

FOM

 

[Renee P.]

Keep it simple....too complicated and you are spending more time trying to figure out what command you are suppose to be giving
FOM

Thanks FOM good advice...confusion on my part is what inspired me to seek advice here.

 

[captainjack]

Thanks FOM good advice...confusion on my part is what inspired me to seek advice here.

Teaching a dog to heel on both sides is very easy if done from the beginning. Not only is it easy, it is very common, at least among field trial dogs. If you teach the pup to heel only on one side, then later deside to make him two-sided, you will have a confused dog.

As far as terminiolgy goes...
It is very common, (I'd say most common but can't back that up) for handlers to use the words here and heel to pull or push the dog while lining them for a retrieve. "Here" will pull or move the dog toward you regardless of whether the dog is on your left or right. "Heel" will push the dog away from you regardless of whether the dog is on your left or right. These movements of the dog are pivots where their rear end stays in place and they move their front as you direct. The dogs have no trouble learning this.

I haven't viewed the Hillman program, but I'd guess that the program teaches two-sided heeling (based on your op) and doesn't suggest the need for all sorts of different words to do it.

Remember consistency in commands is very important. You don't want to teach a pup that a word means something as a puppy, then use that same word to mean something else later.

Stick with the program and good luck.