Hopefully many readers will consider the source.

Here's the text from the very bottom of the article:

ABOUT THE WRITER
Karen Porreca is a director with People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, 501 Front Street, Norfolk, Va. 23510; www.PETA.org. Information about PETA's funding may be found at www.peta.org/about/numbers.asp.
This essay is available to McClatchy-Tribune News Service subscribers. McClatchy-Tribune did not subsidize the writing of this column; the opinions are those of the writer and do not necessarily represent the views of McClatchy-Tribune or its editors.

 

Chris-

Many people will indeed consider the source and many of them will say, "I agree." We should not presume that P*TA or the HSUS are universally discredited.

Eric

 

So she spent twenty minutes undoing another trainers work she knows nothing about.
Love it when people stick their noses where they don't belong.

 

BEcause the pre-collar corrections were so less painful?

I don't think people understand how much E-collars have improved the lives of MANY dogs. Like anything in the wrong hands not so much, but with out them, those wrong hands would have another "tool".

Less current through e-collars as a correcetion for most dogs thne most settings for Interferrential current used as therapy in health care clinics all over........

 

these people don't want us to have dogs, much less well trained or even well behaved dogs.

 

so true. i guess to them dogs should be wild animals living in their natural habitat...oh wait, my home IS their natural habitat .....where do they think dogs are supposed to go if we dont have them as pets?....

 

the great thing is that e-collars, in general, are becoming more and more accepted. We started our off-leash program I think about 12 years ago now and I was really nervous when we started it. There was nobody in the area, as best I could tell, that was actively promoting an e-collar based program.

I think in all these years, maybe two people cringed over the phone when I was explaining the program to them. Other than that, we put a ton of dogs through the program and people are thrilled with the results.

As much as many people here don't like Fred Hassen, Sit Means Sit has helped perpetuate a positive response to the collar, again as best I can tell.

I know there are still people like this woman, and plenty of them. But I think it the collar has garnered wider acceptance over the years, too.

There's a local trainer that is somehow affiliated with Victoria Stillwell. In fact, Stillwell was in town for some event where they trade those nasty e-collars, prong collars and choke chains for humane harnesses. I think the campaign is called "no more hurt" or something like that. While it frustrates me, I don't think our potential clients are affected by it.

Just knowing Victoria Stillwell was 20 mins from my house kind of made me a little nauseous though.

 

the great thing is that e-collars, in general, are becoming more and more accepted.

I wish I agreed w/ you about this. I recently read about a proposal in Canada that proposed to ban "shock collars" like other civilized countries. I think that those of us who work more or less exclusively w/ gundogs think e-collars are gaining acceptance, but outside of this small community, the dog world in general has rapidly moved toward the "Positive only" approach.

Look at the requirements/philosophy of the APDT & it's pure behaviorist (so called) learning theory. I hate to sound paranoid but I don't think most of you on this list realize how far the rest of the dog world has gone down this road. It's like a cult.

 

They are the same people who will send the parent to jail and the child to a foster home for spankings.

I had my share as I grew up and look how great I am. A perfect example ;-D

 

I agree with you.
But I bet one of us hunters would be their best Bud if we walked up on them in the wilderness and a bear had them by the Ham.
Haha that makes me laugh with just a mental picture.
(now just feed him a carrot and he'll leave you alone )lmao.

 

I got this from a supposedly reputable trainer last week.

I left my dog at his kennel while my wife and I went to the beach. We were going through his stuff when he saw the collar and transmitter and very pointedly said he did not need either of those devices. As I have learned, I did not say anything.

Which of course was not good enough for him. When we got the paperwork done, he decided to ask me why I felt like I needed to use it. I politely said that he wasn't going to change my mind and I wasn't going to change his, so let's just not have the discussion.

Which of course was still not good enough. He started explaining how all he needed in his Schutzhund (sp?) training in his native Germany was treats and praise. I said that's all well and good, but when my dog is 100 yards across a flooded rice field, how do I get him a correction for an unwanted behavior in the 1.5 seconds I have to do it?

BTW, he also took it upon himself to feed my dog canned dog food, which he had never had to my knowledge, because he was teething, and you can imagine the gastric effects of that. I knew he was teething, but I watch him eat at least two meals a day and it doesn't seem to present him with the slightest challenge.

Why can't folks respect your choices and do what you ask them to do, especially when you are paying them for it?

 

It's the disney movies, they think there's really wild animals in the woods just sitting around talkin to each other and laughing.

 

Your right. I got an idea lets talk them into saving Bambi from the middle of a forest fire!

 

Those harnesses are great for my business, nothing like a 80 pound dog yanking around his 115 pound companion to send her into my office with neck and shoulder pain! No more hurt for who?

 

I think I'll hold off showing my kids bambi until after they've harvested their first deer...

 

I have 2 daughters, ages 4 & 7. The 7 year old has been deer and duck/goose/dove hunting with me...she hasn't seen me take a deer yet, but she has seen me take birds. My wife makes most of the rules about how we deal with our kids, but the bottom line is that she knows that these children are NEVER to see Bambi under any circumstances. NEVER.

 

I banned Disney animal movies when my kids were little - they would cry in front of the TV. Too much humanizing of wild animals...

 

Would be nice if people could mind their own business- but they can't. Too many busybodies around..
A thought provoker though- what would happen to our retriever sports if the e collar was banned here in USA? Certainly it is possible to train dogs w/o it but I wonder how many of us would just get out of the sport, or how many of us trainers would find another profession?

 

Here is the problem with the banning of E collars. If you were to ban the use of one in this country the honest hard working people who use them in the proper manner and condition their dogs properly and rarely need to make a correction would stop using them. However the people who view the collar as a short cut for training will continue to abuse the button and in turn abuse the dog.

Much like if guns were banned all of the honest people would turn theirs in while the criminals would have stockpiles of them.

 

Respond with "Guns dont hurt people ... people hurt people".

Those e-collars dont go off on their own. You usually need someone pushing a button to get a stim. Plus, at least on TT collars, those "dangerous" prongs are rounded off, and are pretty slick along the dog's neck.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

I'd say I'm pretty new to all things related to hunting, such as, e collars, but not to dogs. What I have found is how you sell (explain) the use of the collar. When people ask me why my dogs is wearing an e collar I tell them it is for her safety. That is what the trainer explained to me when she first met my 9 week old puppy and me three years ago. It is a tool just like my whistle. I explain I spend many hours per day working with my dog. She is very important to me and her safety is my main goal. I would never tell some one I use it to punish my dog. Most dog people do not understand why you would punish a dog, but they do understand keeping a dog safe. Keep you explanation short and take into consideration the mental ability of the person you are sharing your knowledge with.

When a child ask where do babies come from, does not mean they want an in depth account of all things that go on behind closed doors.

Terri

 

Where do babies come from?

 

That is a silly question.. They are delivered by a stork.

 

I thought you were gonna tell me there was an e collar involved. HAHA

 

ok a stork wearing an e collar

 

Nah... geese deliver babies. Storks are endangered.

 

most of the opinion pages I read on the bigger news network sites have that disclaimer. (opinions expressed here are solely those of the author)

 

Back on topic... I just saw this - http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2011/08/02/exp.wuc.puppy.glows.cnn - and PETA is concerned about e-Collars while scientists are injecting glow-in-the-dark-genes into pregnant dogs??????

 

This coming from an organiztion that was caught dumping dead cats in a dumpster.
Man these people Pizz me off. I came to a paper drawn in crayon with some pets slogan on it. I wish I was home when it was put in the door if they only knew. LOL

 

One good thing is I saw a Dog Whisperer show the other day where Cesar Milan used an e collar on a particulary difficult dog. That can't hurt our case for e collars.

 

One good thing is I saw a Dog Whisperer show the other day where Cesar Milan used an e collar on a particulary difficult dog. That can't hurt our case for e collars.

I saw that too over the weekend. He did puss out and use vibrate, though. LOL But still it was a clear dogtra product placement, which is great. He is well-respected and he's used them before on his show -- I believe the episode Missy Lemoi was in, too.

I have not had the public experience that some people have, but I have had a few clients that brought spouses to lessons that I guess didn't realize their dogs were being trained with ecollars. The last one where it happened was a couple of weeks ago. The dog was a few weeks into training, well into his collar conditioning. He got a quick nick when his dad called and he didn't respond. He gave a quick jump and came running.

Mama had a look on her face of panic and the "you just hurt my dog" look. Before she could say anything I said "hold on, take a breath and look at your dog" -- who was standing by her and her husband, calmy and happily wagging his tail after coming when called in response to the collar. I said something like "before you get worried about the collar, I want you to watch your dog. Watch to see if he looks scared, abused or nervous. Watch his body language."

I didn't honestly think I could win her over so quickly. About 15 mins later she was in the middle of a leash lesson and he was getting a little ahead of her and she looked at me and said "I think he needs a zap!". It was great. She was my favorite client because she was someone who was completely mortified by the collar and within 15 mins realized that she now had a dog she could walk on leash (and off) and be safe, in control and enjoy her walk...

IF someone ever approaches me publicly, I'm going to ask them "does my dog look abused and unhappy?" They need to ignore the collar and look at the dog.

I hate seeing dogs with those gentle leaders on. That just looks miserably uncomfortable and it makes sense the dog doesn't pull when they're on... To me those are worse than just about any commercial training product!!!

 

It is frustrating the response that some people have. When I lived in KC and Beamer was about a year old, I played A LOT of softball. Dogs had not been banned from the park then and my girlfriend at the time had brougth Beamer to a game. AS the Game went on, he got to chase a few foul balls, and everyone was impressed. After the game I got an old ball and bat and hit fungoes into the outfield and let him retrieve several balls. One lady was just beside her self at how great he was, she came out to watch closer and saw the light blinking. She asked what it was, I said his training collar. She went off on me. How it was cruel yadda yadda yadda. I told her the the transmitter was in my pocket that I had not used it all night, it was just in case there was a situation that I needed to get his attention. she kept tell me how awful it was to strap an electrode on his neck " How would you like it if I strapped electrity to your balls?" (lots of things I thought about sayin gto that;-) ) that the only reason he did it was he was afraid. So I took the collar off and repeated what we had been doing, and if you knew beamer you could imagine how "scared" he was acting as his tail was making fans in the infield dirt..... I even put the collar on my arm and pressed the button, offered to let her press the button or see what it felt like, pointed out that it allowed Beamer to get to come to the ball park and chase balls instead of staying home in the kennel by himself yadda yadda yadda....She stormed off yelling at me still, on the way out one of the park employees said she had reported me to the office for animal abuse on her way out. I asked the guy if beamer looked like he was being abused. He chuckled and asked for training tips.....

there are some close minded nutso's out there, and some of them have deep pockets, with such circumstances, I would not say that collars are completly safe...

 

I let mine watch Bambi,and when Bambi's daddy comes on the scene I say "Okay look at him,thats a SHOOTER"

 

That is exactly what my dad told me when I was little and then had me shoot the tv with my nerf gun..

 

Oh come on people Bambi; like Ole Yeller and Where the Red Fern Grows, are rights of passage let the kids watch them, I would hope they know the difference btw cartoon and reality

Of course I have a friend who's father turned off Old yeller, before it was over when she watched it as a kid. She rented it for her kids this year. Called up her father afterwards, shocked did you know "OLD YELLER, DIES @ the END!!?" LOL He was a little blindsided on that one, much better to explain such things to a 7 yr old than a 40 yr old. lol