My first time seeing myself handle on video... links attached.

Pete · Mar 13, 2012

Weather your high up on a dog or behind him,,,,as long as you are consistant at what your doing,,,the dog will figure it out. Each position has there advantages.
I have no idea how people line /aim their dog looking straight down on it.

But then many don't understand how someone can easily move a dog from behind.

Chris
What made Buses ears drop back,,,did you tell him to sit ,,,,?
I thought you looked way better than what I would look like. I was impressed that you can stand up so quickly after squatting.

Pete

Dman · Mar 13, 2012

Veranda for me. This weather is just too nice.

BonMallari · Mar 13, 2012

Ted Shih said:
I disagree.

I prefer standing with my inside leg even with the dog's shoulder.

I think that the dog is more cognizant of where you are and that small movements on your part can influence the dog when you stand more forward on the dog.

Ted : just so I/we are talking about the same thing do any of these pictures depict which position you prefer

Figure 1

Figure 2

Figure 3

Figure 4

photos are from my personal collection and are of Clint (w/Brig), KJ Rice(w/Dora), Don Remien( w/ Hank), Charlene Keoth( w/ Lil)...

Angie B · Mar 13, 2012

BonMallari said:
Ted : just so I/we are talking about the same thing do any of these pictures depict which position you prefer

Figure 1

Figure 2

Figure 3

Figure 4

photos are from my personal collection and are of Clint (w/Brig), KJ Rice(w/Dora), Don Remien( w/ Hank), Charlene Keoth( w/ Lil)...

Ahhhh NO! Because none of them are at the shoulder...

Angie

BonMallari · Mar 13, 2012

Angie B said:
Ahhhh NO! Because none of them are at the shoulder...

Angie

that was kind of the point of asking the question as opposed to these pictures where the handler is at the hip

Chris Atkinson · Mar 13, 2012

Todd Caswell said:
Nice Chris, only thing that stood out to me, was the quick send and we all do it, one of those thing I always have to think about myself. It was hard to tell in the video, but around the 2 minute mark, you gave a light stick correction and had the gunner pick up the mark, was the correction for the slight head swing??

We had a golf course close up here a few years ago it was good for a couple years and then it got overgrown and unusable, but it was nice while it lasted..

Yes Todd, the head swing was the exact reason for the tap (literally just a tap) with the stick and the pick up by Tim. It is also the reason I asked the short gun on the left to come out front and be more visible.

This was the key thing I wanted to work on with that mark...look past the short gun. Watch the long gun....really watch the long gun. Do not head swing. And then I blew part of it by sending him so fast!

I agree on the rushed sends and am not the least bit surprised that everyone saw it.

I do appreciate everyone's commentary.

I definitely need to do more video and do more self-analysis.

Thanks everyone.

Chris

Ted Shih · Mar 13, 2012

walt8@cox.net said:
I find that when my knee is at my dogs hip, my movements need to be larger, and I need to make more of an effort to get her attention. We work hard to keep her shoulder at my knee, and when we're successful, our movements are much more subtle and smoother.

This is my experience

As for Bon's photographs, I prefer the first set to the second set. By and large, I still prefer to be a bit more forward on the dog than it is depicted in the first set. However, the set up for a send after the first, often has other considerations

JusticeDog · Mar 13, 2012

I thought Chris' body position with the dog was perfect. (They get used to how they have been trained.) What I noticed is that Chris does not put his hand down on the longer retired gun on the double. He also seemed to turn off of the short retired gun on the set up where he made the big swing to get himself in position for the next mark, sooner rather than later. I usually count 2-3 seconds from the time the mark hits the ground... unless the count by the judges is quicker than that, of course. this coincides with the quick sends. But again, Bus is used to Chris' training methods...

Loved Rosie.... but where is Violet?

PlushHunter · Mar 13, 2012

Chris I will have my good camera up and ready soon we will get alot more quality videos of all the guys in the group. I like to use videos for my Archery form also this is one reason why I video tape about everything for critiquing.

BonMallari · Mar 13, 2012

Ted Shih said:
This is my experience

As for Bon's photographs, I prefer the first set to the second set. By and large, I still prefer to be a bit more forward on the dog than it is depicted in the first set. However, the set up for a send after the first, often has other considerations

Thanks for answering Ted, I just wanted some clarification, Clint tells me I stand too far back too, he prefers the front shoulder like you do too..but in full disclosure, I know that only the first picture with Clint was a blind, the second set of pictures were all marks from the last series at RRiver, and I cant remember if the pics of Don,KJ and Charli were blinds or marks

Chris Atkinson · Mar 13, 2012

JusticeDog said:
I thought Chris' body position with the dog was perfect. (They get used to how they have been trained.) What I noticed is that Chris does not put his hand down on the longer retired gun on the double. He also seemed to turn off of the short retired gun on the set up where he made the big swing to get himself in position for the next mark, sooner rather than later. I usually count 2-3 seconds from the time the mark hits the ground... unless the count by the judges is quicker than that, of course. this coincides with the quick sends. But again, Bus is used to Chris' training methods...

Loved Rosie.... but where is Violet?

Susan,

Your critique nails exactly what drives me the most nuts when I view the video.

My goals were to do 2 things. I wanted marks that were pretty low on the difficulty level - likely to produce success. I wanted to work on head swinging on the 2nd mark thrown. I wanted to work on live human-thrown retired marks.

It drives me NUTS how fast I swung off of both retired marks to turn to the short "go bird", which is really just thrown to set up the retired memory bird. I almost cancelled out the whole purpose of the first setup, which was to work on head swinging.

I want to work on head swinging more. I do think he may have learned something on that head swing, and I intentionally just gave him a tiny tap to tell him he's not to swing to that short gun. I do agree that my attempts to really work with him to get him to lock in on that long gun and NOT swing over to the short left mark (did not show well in video) were fidgety looking. It is entirely possible that I worried him by the repeated cueing and hand movements.

I did send him fast on that head swinging mark after the stick tap. I did this because he did as I was urging and stayed focused on that mark and did not head swing. I decided to kick him off fast and set him up for success once he stayed looking at that long mark.

On the "no hand send" for the retired memory birds: I used to "always" put a hand down for all memory birds with Bus. I stopped this when coached to avoid it in Summer of 2009 at a workshop in Montello.

We were urged to not use a hand on memory birds, in general, unless it was to drive the dog deep. In both of the retired marks we ran, they were plopping right out in a "want to go to" spot (in my opinion). I did not want to drive the dog deep, due to the location of the marks and the fact that there were roads behind the marks. (and no, there is no fence between the mark and that busy road - to answer someone who mentioned that)

I also realize that "golf course marks" are not the sort of thing that's going to help us hammer All Age work. I do try to use that setting to work on concepts like retired mark mechanics and head swinging.

Now to just slow down and not rush!

Violet was on the truck. Since Rosie came along, Vi has decided bumpers are for nerds. Give Violet a mole or a mouse and she's game-on. In the absence of a rodent, a UPS driver or Schwann's man will do

. (just kidding

)

Chris Atkinson · Mar 13, 2012

BonMallari said:
Thanks for answering Ted, I just wanted some clarification, Clint tells me I stand too far back too, he prefers the front shoulder like you do too..but in full disclosure, I know that only the first picture with Clint was a blind, the second set of pictures were all marks from the last series at RRiver, and I cant remember if the pics of Don,KJ and Charli were blinds or marks

I liked the first set too. Like Susan wrote, I'd imagine some of this is all in what the dog and handler do as a matter of consistency. For me personally, if I had my dog out in front like photo set #2, I personally would feel out of control. I would feel like I'd set the dog up with a creep before we ever even got the first bird thrown.

I figure I'm going to be more calm and better help run the series with the dog if I'm comfortable and not feeling out of place. To me, being that far back on the dog would feel out of place.

I do appreciate all folks' commentary though!

Thanks for posting the example pics Bon!

Chris

Aussie · Mar 13, 2012

Chris, nice butt!! Nice bus(s) too.

Chris Atkinson · Mar 13, 2012

Aussie said:
Chris, nice butt!! Nice bus(s) too.

Haha! Thanks.

;-)

kjrice · Mar 13, 2012

I look forward to Rosie's FF sessions.

kjrice · Mar 13, 2012

BonMallari said:
Thanks for answering Ted, I just wanted some clarification, Clint tells me I stand too far back too, he prefers the front shoulder like you do too..but in full disclosure, I know that only the first picture with Clint was a blind, the second set of pictures were all marks from the last series at RRiver, and I cant remember if the pics of Don,KJ and Charli were blinds or marks

Since that picture (a year ago), I have moved up and prefer it for the reason stated by Ted. I think my dog responds better to subtle movements and I have more control. I believe Hillmann stated "toes to nose" in his video. With my size 14 clod-hoppers, it puts me at the shoulder. It seems like the bigger, louder movements needed, from standing back, take away from a dog's focus.

BonMallari · Mar 13, 2012

kjrice said:
Since that picture (a year ago), I have moved up and prefer it for the reason stated by Ted. I think my dog responds better to subtle movements and I have more control. I believe Hillmann stated "toes to nose" in his video. With my size 14 clod-hoppers, it puts me at the shoulder. It seems like the bigger, louder movements needed, from standing back, take away from a dog's focus.

I got you covered pardner, you were much further up in this picture

EdA · Mar 13, 2012

Chris Atkinson said:
For me personally, if I had my dog out in front like photo set #2, I personally would feel out of control. Chris

It's hard to drive a Bus or a car from the back seat. A person whose opinion you would respect stated that you have to be close to the dog to pull, pulling is much harder from the back seat for most of us.

Wayne Nutt · Mar 13, 2012

Videos of you handling can be humbling but at the same time a good learning experience.

Chris Atkinson · Mar 13, 2012

Wayne Nutt said:
Videos of you handling can be humbling but at the same time a good learning experience.

Wayne, I can honestly say that I'd have not posted the videos at all if I'd not seen you have the guts to do it. I mean that sincerely.

I've gotten feedback on the stuff that bothered me. I've gotten feedback on some stuff I'd not thought of. I've gotten feedback on my butt and my brindle pit.

Overall, I'm very glad I posted the videos!

My first time seeing myself handle on video... links attached.

Pete

Dman

BonMallari

Angie B

BonMallari

Chris Atkinson

Ted Shih

JusticeDog

PlushHunter

BonMallari

Chris Atkinson

Chris Atkinson

Aussie

Chris Atkinson

kjrice

kjrice

BonMallari

EdA

Wayne Nutt

Chris Atkinson

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