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#21 ·
While no background info was provided by the OP, I think the "calmness" is a product of energy use (lowering the dog's neural firing) along with the act of being under control via running the blinds - then again, the OP didn't say whether the dog had any whistle stops. ;-)

Whether the dog was conditioned to having marks first then blinds, the OP didn't say.
 
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#22 ·
Something that was brought up by a very well know Amatuer field trialer at a Lardy clinic I attended was that amatuer trained and handled dogs are more likely to get jacked pre-trial than are dogs that spend most of their days on a pro truck training. I had my whiner there for 5 days of pre-clinic training (2 days with my training group and 3 days with the 12 clinic handlers) plus the 3 1/2 days of clinic. Before the clinic even started, the whining was gone and the creeping was down to front foot movement only. Being exposed to that trial-type environment for 8 straight days did wonders to settle the dog down.
 
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#23 · (Edited)
When Randy finally comes clean with his advice, I'm betting he won't be talking so much about running a blind or doing some obedience drills, or any other sequence of events prior to going to the line at the trial. He'll be talking about NOT TEACHING the dog that there is a specified ROUTINE you follow that leads up to a huge, beautiful flyer. ;) After all, if you followed the regimen in his OP every time out, would the dog not BECOME CONDITIONED to leaving the holding blind, running 2 blinds, and THEN ... cue the noise ... sitting down (maybe) to watch the marks. Taking off the energy edge, shifting the mindset to one of control and teamwork, etc. are a part of the equation and will help, but won't the dog quickly learn your new routine? AND on trial day, it all goes out the window. These dogs ain't stupid. They know where they are.

There are a lot of things you can do in training to establish the "what are we going to do now" mindset when you leave the holding blind. Cold honors are great, for example. How about getting out of the truck, standing in the holding blind while the birds are shot for the running dog, then going back to the truck. As many times as it takes. Keep the dog guessing and only once in a while, do the standard ready, set, go sequence. Get creative.

And for those of you that don't get many opportunities to train in a group with a trial atmosphere, all the better. Take advantage of those precious group training days with the club to work on your weakness. So what if you drive 2 hours to the training day and your dog only gets one retrieve. GREAT! Are you there to show your buddies how your high rolling, high drive superdog can do that triple? Or are you there to train?

On the flip side, I had a nice dog from show breeding who's desire was adequate but I wanted to amp him up a little and get him a little more excited and focused on "out in the field". So how would you TEACH this dog to get excited? How about coming out of the blind, taking about 3 steps toward the line and BANG, out comes a nice rooster about 50 yds. out! Let him go as it hits the ground! How many of those would it take to get him whining when he hears "dog to the line"? Same kind of deal. Expectations and anticipation.

Remember that Pavlov guy? Think about it.

JS
 
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#24 · (Edited)
Let me try this. The whining is anticipation of running hard and fast for marks which is in itself rewarding. So this is not rewarded. Instead, the dog runs some blinds. The excitement and whining is not there but the reward of running after coming to the line quietly is there, thus the dog is rewarded with a run. Now the dog brings this to the line when running his marks. He has been reminded that good behavior at the line is rewarded with a run.

I think this is about what is rewarded and what isn't rewarded. Also, the behavior that is rewarded is the one that is most likely to recur---silence at the line.
 
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#25 ·
We all know or have heard about great dogs owned, trained, and handled by very good trainers that are or were a handful at a trial. Its not just newbies that have issues with high dogs.

Its difficult to get that right balance of control at the line and on blinds, while not overdoing it to the point where the dog is not relaxed enough to dig out the tough marks.
 
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Discussion starter · #27 ·
Some really good answers for all who answered...and nobody even side tracked the thread..
(Owner induced noisy dogs): there are many steps prior to taking the dog to the field that help control noise issues.
(Genetically noisy dogs): The more steam you can take out of the dog prior to throwing marks the better, blinds,cheating singles,casting drills, anything to keep the dog thinking about the job he's doing right now. Pretend your dog is a 10 yr. old kid with tons of energy and your on the way to the amusement park...excitement level is off the chart, now tell him to go run 2 miles before you go to the park and the ride is more enjoyable. You can help the noise at trials too by taking the time to do exercises off trial grounds, figure out your appr. time to run and have a friend call you if something happens in the running order. Show up to run in order and the edge is already off. Again there are many steps prior to the dog doing retrieves when they are here to fix noise issues, no marks for about 6-8 weeks, strict obedience all having the dog focusing on you the owner. Randy
 
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#28 ·
FinnLandR said:
How does one tell the difference between me screwing my dog up, and him being wired that way?
Click to expand...
Cory, when you get a sound answe to thIs will you please share with me?:eek:
 
Discussion starter · #29 ·
Cory, it's hard initially but with time here watching and observing them you begin to put a program into the dog and see what pops out. The most recent fix just went home last week and very unsure what the cause was until I started working with him. I watched/heard this dog in derby and thought genetics BUT once he got here it was owner/stubborn induced noise. He was fixed up in about 4 weeks and turned out to be one of the easiest ones to keep quiet. On the other hand we have one of the top 3 all time noisiest dogs here in training and you need to be on top of him daily, he is a genetically noisy dog...very hard to cure.
I was helping a guy thru videos from California and so far it seems to be an owner induced noise issue because I gave him one obedience drill to do and most of the noise went away in a few days...Randy
 
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#31 ·
Randy Bohn said:
On the other hand we have one of the top 3 all time noisiest dogs here in training and you need to be on top of him daily, he is a genetically noisy dog...very hard to cure.
I was helping a guy thru videos from California and so far it seems to be an owner induced noise issue because I gave him one obedience drill to do and most of the noise went away in a few days...Randy
Click to expand...
Bohn man. Have you become the Non-Music Man? Eliminating trouble in River City? Keep up the good work.
 
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#32 ·
Randy Bohn said:
Some really good answers for all who answered...and nobody even side tracked the thread..
(Owner induced noisy dogs): there are many steps prior to taking the dog to the field that help control noise issues.
(Genetically noisy dogs): The more steam you can take out of the dog prior to throwing marks the better, blinds,cheating singles,casting drills, anything to keep the dog thinking about the job he's doing right now. Pretend your dog is a 10 yr. old kid with tons of energy and your on the way to the amusement park...excitement level is off the chart, now tell him to go run 2 miles before you go to the park and the ride is more enjoyable. You can help the noise at trials too by taking the time to do exercises off trial grounds, figure out your appr. time to run and have a friend call you if something happens in the running order. Show up to run in order and the edge is already off. Again there are many steps prior to the dog doing retrieves when they are here to fix noise issues, no marks for about 6-8 weeks, strict obedience all having the dog focusing on you the owner. Randy
Click to expand...
Would this be the same medicine for a creeper? What kind of "exercises" would you do off the grounds before a trial?
 
#35 ·
My first two competitive dogs - who were littermates - FC/AFC Freeridin Wowie Zowie and FC/AFC Sky Hy Husker Power were a handful on the line. In part, that was due to genetics. In part, that was due to my inexperience as a handler.

Whenever I went to a field trial, I would find a field nearby and I would run pattern blinds before I ran - and after I ran. It helped take the edge off of them and make them manageable.

I have not had any dogs as wild as those two since, but I have had a few that required obedience and wagon wheel drills in the morning. I make a point of noting on my GPS the fields that I can run blinds/marks on, and the school yards, parks, etc. where I can do obedience and wagon wheel drills in the morning.
 
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Discussion starter · #36 ·
Bob, one of the most important things to remember when you have a high strung dog is obedience...obedience...obedience.Most people rush home from work knock out a bunch of marks and call it a night, rushing gets you into trouble because the dog says hurry up and that's exactly what your doing (dog runs you)!! Randy
 
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Discussion starter · #37 ·
Carol, put your dog at a remote sit about 10 yds. away from you on a long line. Make sure your dog stays facing forward and doesn't get up on a 360 degree walk around remote sit. If he gets up and tries to move....your probably the major part of your dogs issues.Randy

Charlie...creepers and breakers go thru a program also, the dog has no idea you exist and the program is designed to make your dog remember your there with him..
Basic lining drills are ok to do but they just take a little steam off the dogs erupting volcanoe of energy, try some casting drills mixing up overs and backs, they calm down alot better when you make them think...Randy
 
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#39 ·
I have a pup with Cosmo in the pedigree. I started with him doing obedience classes. His high energy level made these classes with all the other dogs present, hard for him to focus. If he did focus it was 5 minutes at most. I thought to myself what am I going to do. I spoke with Rick Stawski and he Emailed me. Obedience was key. FF and CC were important so you had tools to assist you when correcting. Following that advice I began training. While doing FF, I would do lining drills which seemed to relieve this pups high energy levels and give him something to do. Occasionally I slipped a mark in and no problems. I have gotten him to do single T and some swim by. It seems like he likes to do different things with a challenge. And now I have a friend assisting me and we are revisiting FF-tightening it up. It is a very long process folks and if I had thought I was going to run him in a test at 1 yo like my 2 yo did, I was dreaming! All that energy and talent I have had to slow down alot!!! Maybe by the time he is 2, he will be ready. So Randy thanks for the input!!!
 
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#40 ·
Great stuff, Randy. You need to check back in here more often. ;)

JS
 
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