[cvankalk]

Hey everyone,
Looking to buy Hillman's water fundamentals but it only has 6 lessons on it compared to 15 in his land fundamentals. Pretty pricey if I can just pick up concepts from the free online videos.

Any advice or if someone has the DVD they want to sell would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Gold Strike Labradors]

I have both DVD's and have used them several times to refresh/reteach these concepts. The youtube clips are just that, condensed versions of the full length. In the big scheme of things, the price of the videos is well worth the $ spent. You could check the forum's classifieds for the dvd's.

 

[Bryan Parks]

The land and water fundamentals DVDs in my opinion are the best of all his material. Especially for someone training alone.
It's is awesome paired with another program like TRT2.

I train generally following Lardy's progression but incorporate the hillmann fundamental DVDs that show how to do a lot of the Lardy basics but by yourself. His hand thrown cheating singles were a huge asset to me.

 

[cvankalk]

Ok thanks. Solid advice. Will be ordering.

I am wondering since I'm new to training if I'm short changing myself by following Hillman exclusively. Seems as though I may be skipping things covered in other programs. Just finished land fundamentals and progressing nicely, at least I think he is!

Although incorporating a new program like Lardy or Graham might be recipe for disaster for a rookie. Thanks.

 

[Bryan Parks]

Well, it depends

I personally believe in force fetch and traditional collar conditioning.

I trained my first test dog with the hillmann puppy and Lardy combination.

I think they compliment each other well. Hillmann's progression in the fundamentals DVDs mirror TRT flow chart with some added drills that are helpful. There are some other differences with how each approach patter blinds. The biggest difference being how they approach force fetch and collar conditioning.

I basically follow TRT and use the fundamentals as a supplement.

if you have decided to go 100% hillmann then for certain you need to buy the fundamentals and the advanced material, I own both.

Depending on what type of dog you have and what your goals are I believe you'll run into some challenges going 100% Hillmann. I know there are some on here that will disagree though.

 

[cvankalk]

Well, it depends

I personally believe in force fetch and traditional collar conditioning.

I trained my first test dog with the hillmann puppy and Lardy combination.

I think they compliment each other well. Hillmann's progression in the fundamentals DVDs mirror TRT flow chart with some added drills that are helpful. There are some other differences with how each approach patter blinds. The biggest difference being how they approach force fetch and collar conditioning.

I basically follow TRT and use the fundamentals as a supplement.

if you have decided to go 100% hillmann then for certain you need to buy the fundamentals and the advanced material, I own both.

Depending on what type of dog you have and what your goals are I believe you'll run into some challenges going 100% Hillmann. I know there are some on here that will disagree though.

Ok thanks, I was on the fence about incorporating other material in. However, if TRT is similar I'm going to give it a shot.

Haha, was worried about investing in another Hillman DVD, and know I've talked myself into buying a whole separate training program. Guess there are worse investments.

 

[Bryan Parks]

Cvankalk, while I believe the fundamentals DVDs are a great supplement to TRT they do have the major difference in that TRT is a force fetch and traditional collar conditioning program while Hillmann's is not.

If you go with Lardy I would completely buy in to it and just use the hillmann stuff as a supplement because you don't want to halfway do anything but especially FF and CC.

 

[GG]

Cvankalk, working with a competent professional is the. bests way to get good information about training. your dog, videos in my opinion, are the next best thing. The prices yo pay for any information is the cheapest part of doing a good job of training. Hopes this helps
GG

 

[Mark S]

Well, it depends

I personally believe in force fetch and traditional collar conditioning.

I trained my first test dog with the hillmann puppy and Lardy combination.

I think they compliment each other well. Hillmann's progression in the fundamentals DVDs mirror TRT flow chart with some added drills that are helpful. There are some other differences with how each approach patter blinds. The biggest difference being how they approach force fetch and collar conditioning.

I basically follow TRT and use the fundamentals as a supplement.

if you have decided to go 100% hillmann then for certain you need to buy the fundamentals and the advanced material, I own both.

Depending on what type of dog you have and what your goals are I believe you'll run into some challenges going 100% Hillmann. I know there are some on here that will disagree though.

I agree with everything you are saying Bryan. Great advice. I also believe in traditional force fetch. Hillman and Lardy's program compliment each other very nicely. I blend both into my yard training and it has worked well for my last two dogs. My only critique of Hillman's program is that I wish he would discuss problem shooting more which ALWAYS happens when bringing a dog through the yard.

 

[cvankalk]

Mark S, it has been a challenge problem shooting with Hillman. More times than not he addresses the problem in a YouTube clip, it's just a matter of finding it.

I'm probably going to stick with Hillman all the way through. Like GG said, I will consult a trainer if I get stuck or try the local retriever club.

I do really like the fundamental approach to Hillman training. The way he emphasizes making training into a game and developing drive clicked with me. Other programs might be the same also, I wouldn't know. It would be nice to have flow chart to be able to decipher his program into steps. It just takes more time reviewing past training.

Thanks all for the advice!

 

[Bryan Parks]

Another thing about following Hillmann all the way through is you most likely won't find help with a retriever club and you'll have to search out for a pro that uses his methods exclusively. I don't know of any pro that uses his methods exclusively.

Most advice you'll receive won't line up with the approach you are taking.

if you find a club and start asking about force fetch, 99% of the responses will not be in line with Hillmann's fetch method.

So that could be a challenge for you

 

[Bryan Parks]

As far as steps

work through the entire Puppy program, then his fetch command DVD, then work through the fundamentals DVDs. They don't necessarily have a flow chart but the videos do go in a sequential progression you can follow.

 

[cvankalk]

Well I'm all the way through single T about to start water work. I thought it was more common for people to use the Hillman program stand alone.

I will buy Lardy or Graham for the next dog and use what I can on this one.

He's going to be one damn fine meat dog!