[Brokengunz]

The Friday start of trials is also a draw back for working folks.

 

[EdA]

The Friday start of trials is also a draw back for working folks.

Field trials have had Friday starts well before my introduction to them in the early 70s

 

[John Robinson]

The Friday start of trials is also a draw back for working folks.

The reality is that field trials themselves are a draw back for working folks. Between the Friday starts of the Qual and Open, plus for many trials, a travel day prior, you have to dip into vacation days just to run your own dog. That's one big reason a lot of working people use a pro until they are retired. That said, my buddy Jim and I would forgo the Open and Qual, drive half the night after work on Friday to run a derby or Amateur on Saturday morning. Then hopefully be around to the end of Sunday to drive home to get a little sleep before work Monday morning.

 

[zeus3925]

To each their own, but in my opinion the coming of hunt tests took a lot of the "workers" away from field trials. I understand it, and why they left.

Field trials are great but sure aren't for everyone.

Actually in our neck of the woods FT crews are made up largely of hunt testers but there is not much in the way of reciprocity. Some FT have their snooters up inthe air about the hunt test game but I think for the most part it is the scheduling of the FT's that are responsible for that.

I don't think HT should be run down either. As a handler they were invaluable in learning to handle a dog, and I have now moved on to FTs.. Hunt tests gave me an awesome hunting dog. I see HT as sort of a "farm club" for future field trialers and a home for those who just want to run their dogs in a non competitive venue

 

[swliszka]

One of my jobs required 7 consecutive workdays to get two week-end days off. To get three week-end days off (F-Sa-Sun) I had to work 10 consecutive days. I did this for 5 + years to run the trials. Sacrifice not a hero. I know field trialers did/do that. This is where you also have a buddy run your dog. I got a better job which allowed weekends off and vacations days off to run trials. How bad do you want it? There are race-car drivers-observers/golfers/fishermen/street-rod guys/ pick your poison .....who do it as well. One of my bosses asked me once - "so what do you get out of this?". He happened to be a competitive national ranked handgun shooter and I responded in kind- nothing/cheap ribbons/better quality trophy and the satisfaction of doing something well.

 

[Nate_C]

I am a 30 something guy that plays both games. I have a MNH that can run FT and have one 2 Quals and now consistently do pretty well in Amateurs though I have never finished. For me, excluding the pro training, HT are every bit as expensive as FT. In fact since most times the FT is just one day for me it is a bit cheaper. Throw in Master National and it is every bit as expensive. However, to be honest, a AFC is out of capabilities of most amateurs. This isn't a function of capabilities it is a function of resources. To be a AFC you need to train the dog at least 4-5 times a week almost year round with most of that being on FT grounds with big technical water with bird boys. If you know you cannot achieve that goal then it really make it hard to get into it.

So you either need to own the resources yourself or use a pro. This is more money then most amateurs have. The other thing is that even if you get well breed dogs at best only 1 out of every 3 dogs is capable of this. So if you are a amateurs that has one to 3 dogs at a time that makes it more difficult. I currently have a once in a lifetime dog and her could have been a AFC if I would have focused on that the whole time. Now my goal is some JAMs. I am super happy with that becasue my dog is also a HRCH, MNH, and QAA. Those were my real goals. But the likelihood is after my current dog retires I will be back to HT and it will be years before I run another trial. With that said I have had a great experience. Everyone has been super nice to me at every trial and super supportive. Yes they are competitive but they honestly want to see great dog work and really root for each other.

I don't think there is anything you can do to "Fix" it. It will stay a small, mostly older, mostly wealthy group with a small percentage of people like me in there coming and going. With the new QA2 title it will give middle of the road people a goal and I think that is a good thing. Other then that the Master Nationals and Grands will remain the bulk of the middle guys goals.

 

[roseberry]

i don't think any of us ever consider that we likely don't need as many workers today as were needed in the past. when i marshal at a trial all we gotta do is throw three bird boys, three sacks of birds, two flyer shooters, four crates of ducks, five holding blinds, guns and stands on a side-by-side, 4x4, "ranger", "gator" or "mule". then we drive at ass-rippin' speed out to where we are told to go and unload and start throwin'.

no totin', sloggin', draggin', etc. imagine how long it must have taken riding a real mule.;-)(no one here will remember that)

 

[DoubleHaul]

And not everybody has the skill set to drive one....

But those who do will always find a place to rally.

My guess is field trialers will too.

Great perspective.

As an aside, I could own a Ferrari if I didn't run FTs, but I have no interest in one. I like dogs much more than cars.

 

[Scott Adams]

If you want it badly enough, you might just get it. At the very least, you can enjoy the journey.

 

[Ted Shih]

I don't think HT should be run down either. As a handler they were invaluable in learning to handle a dog, and I have now moved on to FTs.. Hunt tests gave me an awesome hunting dog. I see HT as sort of a "farm club" for future field trialers and a home for those who just want to run their dogs in a non competitive venue

Nothing that I have read here puts down Hunting Tests.

 

[Hunt'EmUp]

If you want more people to run & help; you need to put something into it for them. The Qual and Derby would be the stakes to do it in. In hunt tests you progress up and earn titles with a simple set of goals JH>SH>MH>MNH. The more times your out -the more tests you run; the more the hook is set, but there's a defined sequence of attainable goals with no time limit. In FT's there's no progression to set the hook for newbies. In derby you can make the derby list; if you get enough points (it's a goal for 2 yrs. but the time limit kills this stake for newbie). After 2 you've got the Qual (handling dog), this has a title QA2; however it's almost an instant gratification title; only way to get it is 1st & 2nd (2 times), in a stake dominated by Pros. I question how many times someone is gonna put in for just a 1st or 2nd (if you get it initially; your done & there's no draw towards the Amateur) (if your beat out over and over-or fork up $85 to never see a 2nd series, hmm there are several other options that guarantee you more for your investment). 3rd, 4th, RJ means a colored ribbon; but no points towards anything (no progression), a Jam means you've passed the HT. A newbies gonna be thinking, heck if I JAM A HT at a HT; I can earn a title then qualify for the National (where I can earn another title). The other option is jump right into Amateur or Open, at least these stakes placements mean points, Jams go toward that QA2 title. However without the hook being set from earlier stakes; these stakes seem very BIG & UNTOUCHABLE; it takes a particular type of person to jump right into the deep end of the pool to learn how to swim. So keep QAA how it's always been, but make the official Qual title; just like the AFC-FC (placements count as points towards the title, but you still need a 1 or 2); Now the title can be earned, by playing the game more; your progressing. People now have reason to keep coming out to FTs, keep putting on events and keep throwing birds. Play in the qual enough to earn a few points (even if you don't get a 1 or 2nd for a title), hmmm amateur and open, just might not be that big of leap .

Of course this is all relying on the premise that FTs want more people running their events. Most of the decision makers seem to like it how it is. How it is has worked since the beginning, no reason to think it'll fall off the tracks now. There will always be the type that needs the competition, who like Big ups and downs, who no matter the odds will still chase AFC & FC as well as NFC/NAFC. They'll continue to run the events. If they need more workers they'll hire them, if they need more events they'll hire those out as well. The entry fees will go up; but the game will go on.

 

[FOM]

i don't think any of us ever consider that we likely don't need as many workers today as were needed in the past. when i marshal at a trial all we gotta do is throw three bird boys, three sacks of birds, two flyer shooters, four crates of ducks, five holding blinds, guns and stands on a side-by-side, 4x4, "ranger", "gator" or "mule". then we drive at ass-rippin' speed out to where we are told to go and unload and start throwin'.

no totin', sloggin', draggin', etc. imagine how long it must have taken riding a real mule.;-)(no one here will remember that)

You forgot to mention stealing the judges snickers bar so ya don't kill over!

 

[Mary Lynn Metras]

If you want it badly enough, you might just get it. At the very least, you can enjoy the journey.

Here is the key thing enjoy the journey Have fun. Had a great time at The Labrador FT in Onaway. Loads of fun. Dog did okay (3rd series). And maybe he not a Nat dog. But that is not all one should be striving for. Costly, yes but I put it in my budget. Met plenty of people. Train by myself lots. I have goals. Every day I work the dogs on those and some challenges. I belong to a club and would help out any way I can. I would offer to help anyone at any trial if able. Like most of you. Yes, I am in the senior category. I love my dogs. This is a really great hobby. Bottom line you have to work hard at achieving a FT dog to an Open level. No if ands or buts....IMHO It is all what you make it. I am learning all the time.

 

[Criquetpas]

Here is the key thing enjoy the journey Have fun. Had a great time at The Labrador FT in Onaway. Loads of fun. Dog did okay (3rd series). And maybe he not a Nat dog. But that is not all one should be striving for. Costly, yes but I put it in my budget. Met plenty of people. Train by myself lots. I have goals. Every day I work the dogs on those and some challenges. I belong to a club and would help out any way I can. I would offer to help anyone at any trial if able. Like most of you. Yes, I am in the senior category. I love my dogs. This is a really great hobby. Bottom line you have to work hard at achieving a FT dog to an Open level. No if ands or buts....IMHO It is all what you make it. I am learning all the time.

My training partner judged the Open and our little swamp collie got a third in the derby run by Connie Dresser..Chris said he had a great time, good folks and terrific grounds ..I was suppose to do the Open but couldn't get anyone to stay with my wife, she has some serious health issues. There is nothing wrong with doing the weekend trial and trying to do what you can. The National is a hard goal just to qualify with seven points with a win every year even with FC and/or AFC's. One of the folks I have trained with, a amateur trained and handled dog, just qualified with a win, dog is not titled yet but close. You just pound away the best you can and have fun. I always said when I don't have fun anymore, time to quit the dogs. The harder you work in field trials the luckier you will get!

 

[John Robinson]

My training partner judged the Open and our little swamp collie got a third in the derby run by Connie Dresser..Chris said he had a great time, good folks and terrific grounds ..I was suppose to do the Open but couldn't get anyone to stay with my wife, she has some serious health issues. There is nothing wrong with doing the weekend trial and trying to do what you can. The National is a hard goal just to qualify with seven points with a win every year even with FC and/or AFC's. One of the folks I have trained with, a amateur trained and handled dog, just qualified with a win, dog is not titled yet but close. You just pound away the best you can and have fun. I always said when I don't have fun anymore, time to quit the dogs. The harder you work in field trials the luckier you will get!

For some of us who stick with the dog we have through thick and thin, it is a brutal sport. I cant tell you how many times we were within an inch of winning only to have a weird thing lead to a 4th or JAM. I've been in this sport 20 years, my first dog (see avatar) had a QAA ceiling, I retired Yoda with an Open win but not enough points to title. He had injured his back leading to spinal surgery and shortened career. Gus is my best dog by a long shot, we finished eleven trials this year with eight JAMS, a 2nd and two 4ths, didn't even qualify for a National. It's hard to keep running at that brick wall, but so fun when it all lines up.

 

[Ted Shih]

If you want more people to run & help; you need to put something into it for them. .

I disagree. I think if the bug gets you, the bug gets you. No one can talk you in. No one can talk you out.

 

[Criquetpas]

I am a 30 something guy that plays both games. I have a MNH that can run FT and have one 2 Quals and now consistently do pretty well in Amateurs though I have never finished. For me, excluding the pro training, HT are every bit as expensive as FT. In fact since most times the FT is just one day for me it is a bit cheaper. Throw in Master National and it is every bit as expensive. However, to be honest, a AFC is out of capabilities of most amateurs. This isn't a function of capabilities it is a function of resources. To be a AFC you need to train the dog at least 4-5 times a week almost year round with most of that being on FT grounds with big technical water with bird boys. If you know you cannot achieve that goal then it really make it hard to get into it.

So you either need to own the resources yourself or use a pro. This is more money then most amateurs have. The other thing is that even if you get well breed dogs at best only 1 out of every 3 dogs is capable of this. So if you are a amateurs that has one to 3 dogs at a time that makes it more difficult. I currently have a once in a lifetime dog and her could have been a AFC if I would have focused on that the whole time. Now my goal is some JAMs. I am super happy with that becasue my dog is also a HRCH, MNH, and QAA. Those were my real goals. But the likelihood is after my current dog retires I will be back to HT and it will be years before I run another trial. With that said I have had a great experience. Everyone has been super nice to me at every trial and super supportive. Yes they are competitive but they honestly want to see great dog work and really root for each other.

I don't think there is anything you can do to "Fix" it. It will stay a small, mostly older, mostly wealthy group with a small percentage of people like me in there coming and going. With the new QA2 title it will give middle of the road people a goal and I think that is a good thing. Other then that the Master Nationals and Grands will remain the bulk of the middle guys goals.

Kinda agree most folks last about 3 to 5 years, the younger ones, then move on because of a variety of reasons. Don't think it is so much a J.P. Morgan, not enough money, but rather a tough road and a good dog.
Some are reluctant to get rid of dogs and start collecting them, bad , bad thing or get in a rose collared glass about their dogs. There are a number of dogs that are made with many starts, professional training and are FC's and/or AFC's. For a amateur to compete as a trainer, he/she must have a very good to great dog in this day and age. Like I stated in a previous post it is hard to screw up a good dog. You seem to have a great attitude, have fun, do what you can and set realistic goals maybe just maybe, that great one will come along. I waited for nearly 20 years for one and then it rained cats and dogs , so to speak. Now my bucket just comes up with sand in the past 6 or 7 years...hope it is just a cycle.

 

[Criquetpas]

For some of us who stick with the dog we have through thick and thin, it is a brutal sport. I cant tell you how many times we were within an inch of winning only to have a weird thing lead to a 4th or JAM. I've been in this sport 20 years, my first dog (see avatar) had a QAA ceiling, I retired Yoda with an Open win but not enough points to title. He had injured his back leading to spinal surgery and shortened career. Gus is my best dog by a long shot, we finished eleven trials this year with eight JAMS, a 2nd and two 4ths, didn't even qualify for a National. It's hard to keep running at that brick wall, but so fun when it all lines up.

Nothing wrong with that record! My training partner is going through the same thing with his 9 1/2 year old..I retired two in past years, one with 18 points and no win and one with 13 points and a win both ran until almost 10 . The 13 point one was a MH too. Many don't realize how difficult it is, be winning the trial and get a handle in the last series up against a host of pro trained dogs! Finishing 11 all-age trials is a great accomplishment and you should be very happy with the results, especially as a amateur trained dog.

 

[msdaisey]

I played the game as an amateur, went through lots of dogs, and had a lot of fun, but got burned out. Because I was fortunate enough (and unfortunate at the same time lol) to have found a very successful group of amateurs to train with, I learned everything at the level of expecting an FC AFC, and not to just play the game that suited Fluffy best. I was one of those 'worker bee' club members, and for many years, my ex and I were the only two club members to work all of the events (FTs and HTs). I did not run HTs (maybe once or twice because I was there), but supported them as a club member by working. The controversy in my club was one of the reasons I quit playing the game. No appreciation for donating your time; just a raft of grief and rudeness. I get enough of that at work as a teacher. I don't need more of it when I am trying to have fun! It's hard to keep workers when you treat them like crap.

 

[DSemple]

I wonder what the effect would be if qualifying for Nationals was less stringent.

Say a win plus 2 points in any one year would qualify you for 2 years instead of one year.


Don