Unfortunately, the 2 dogs I've known who were affected didn't make it to 18 months. I think you need a more firm diagnosis before making any decisions. I'm so sorry you are going through this.

 

As always and as previously suggested, get another medical opinion. This is by no means a negative towards your vet, but when the end result is death is being put down and second or third consult is always a great idea. Maybe thumb the interwebs for vets or schools that have dealt a lot with this issue and contact them. Best of luck

 

I appreciate the response.
I only mentioned euthanasia because it is a possibility down the road. And I need to be a bit realistic as I become quite attached to my critters. M elk hunting friend told me if he ever dies and cam back as an animal, he would want to be my animal.
Im a golden retriever guy and I really like the pup. so its not like Im just going to toss her. We all know how getting to attached can also have a negative impact on the decision process.

I will get the blood results and post tomorrow.

As stated, my vet has not seen this so its clear he's not a specialist..

I couldn't find any reference to the issue using the search function.

It seems Goldens may be subject to it.

I also am trying to be responsible. The genetic test, was not just for my benefit, but for those that have litter mates, the breeder so he knows to get his dogs tested prior to breeding, and for the ret world in general. If this a disease in labs, it can be held in check through genetic testing.

So I guess, is it better to get the 130 dollar genetic test which might help the specialist if we go that route or spend that much or more at the specialist and not know its genetic, do both?

I really am looking for rational on how to proceed so please keep the ideas coming.

Barb, If i may call you Barb? Were the 2 dogs you referenced goldens or labs?

Thanks to all.

My current plan is she is on a special diet that may help in longevity, train and take care of her as normal until we get a solution.

Bryan Turner

 

Yes Bryan, feel free to call me Barb! One was a Golden, who died at 14 months old, and the other a black lab (British), who died at 8 months old. Sad, sad situations.

 

Ultrasound is the next diagnostic test and may tell you all you need to know. There are non renal causes for BUN elevations and in cases of one diseased and one normal kidney realize that the diseased one is occupying 50% of blood flow while doing nothing to eliminate metabolic wastes. In those instances removal of the diseased kidney allows the normal one to do a much better job.

 

EDA,
Thank you,
thats what I'm looking for, trying to figure out options and choose the best route.
Im close to oregon state vet school and will consult with my vet about using them if we do another ultrasound.
I forgot to post earlier that we did ultrasound the bladder.

He has been vey upfront that he has not seen any patients with this issue. 3 vets in the clinic, lots of experience, Ill have him run this b the other vets also.

do you know its hard to type wit a lab puppy on your lap?

 

I have a 3.5 yr. female lab diagnosed with Diabetes Insipidus. As a pup she displayed all the same issues as you have dealt with. We have been on a roller coaster of success and disappointments with treatments using a drug called desmopressin. Our dogs pituitary gland does not produce the hormone that triggers urine concentration in the kidneys. As we have found out, this is a rare condition and vets often times have limited experience treating dogs with this issue. If there is a possibility that your dog also has Diabetes Insipidus, I would be happy to share my experiences with treatments or if someone else has experience with this issue, possibly we could start another thread. These issues are rare and very difficult to get help and advice with. Best of luck to you.

 

Chrly,
Thank you, I will research and run by my vet.

I picked up the urinalysis and the bloodwork reports.

I tried to talk to vet but the were swamped when I stopped in.

Urine PH was 6
Specific Gravity was 1.016
Poss trace of protein
GLU normal

Blood work.
Report says "SDMA is increased and Creatinine is low which indicates early kidney disease."

The following were abnormal everything else OK

ALP 218 Normal 5-160

Creatine KeaASE 273 10-200

LIPASE 85 138 -755

Total Protein 5 5.5 -7.5

Globulin 2 2.4-4.0

Creatinine .3 .5-1.5

Glucose 115 63-114

Calcium 12.3 8.4 -11.8

Phosphorus 9.2 2.5-6.1

SDMA 15 0-14 (Report says SDMA may be approx 1 point higher in puppies)

HGB 11.5 13.4-20.7

HCT 34.3 38.3-56.5

MCH 21.3 21.9 -26.1

Reticulocyte 114 10-110 (A Reticulocyte count higher than 110 is considered evidence of bone marrow response to increased peripheral demand)

She still seems fine other than the frequent urination and drinking.

She can sleep through the night without having to go out. But once up its back to drink and pee.

Housebreaking is improving had to increase the penalty a bit.

Appetite is seems fine. She gorged and inhaled her first meal when we brought her home, but now is a free feed, go eat a bite, play/train a bit, go get another bite etc...

She's dropping on command fairly well, getting to be steady and releases on name. Sits at the door to come in. Hunts when we go for walks, plays keep away with the horse poo. Pretty much a normal pup.

Just difficult to figure out where to go from here and what her future holds??

Thank you all for the input. Seems from the replies this is pretty rare disorder in labs.

Now that I have the lab work I can contact the breeder and see if any litter mates or prior litter mates have had any issues.

Still open to advice and comments.

Thanks Bryan

 

What was the BUN, or blood urea nitrogen?? A low creatine does not indicate renal disease in my opinion. As Ed suggested an ultrasound would be the next step. I would not biopsy a kidney yet. "IF" he has limited functional nephrons in his kidney, then no sense cutting a few out at this point. I would pursue an ultrasound and possibly a workup for Diabetes Insipidus.
SDMA of 15 is considered normal in puppies.
Just did a quick search in my vet database, and there is a good chance that an ultrasound done by a specialist might be able to determine if it is renal dysplasia. Also found some discussions doubting the validity of the DNA test, those discussions were are recent as fall 2014. So I might hold off spending that money right now.
Best info I could find. Get an ultrasound done by an internal medicine specialist next, in my opinion.

 

Nate,
Thank you.
Bun was 10, normal 9-31.

The report was generated by IDEXX Laboratory Services. Their report indicated Early Renal disease.

Ill chat with vet and start researching who to have do the ultrasound (ultrasound was my vets initial recommendation).

I had not seen anything on validity of the DNA test so thanks.

Ill keep posting as results come in.

Were any of the results super concerning for you? Appreciate your time.

Bryan

 

Just the low SG of the urine. I am not a big fan of Idexx labs, and do not like they way they generalize comments about results, that's the Dr's job.
Were these tests run "inhouse" or sent to the lab?? Will see more variability of in-house results usually.
There is a small subset of dogs that will psychologically drink excessively and wash out their kidney's ability to concentrate. That is in addition to DI.
Please keep us informed.

 

Urine specific gravity of 1.016 pretty much rules out diabetes insipidus, in DI urine specific gravity is persistently less than 1.005 even after 8 hours of water deprivation. Nothing in the blood panel to suggest renal abnormality, some dogs just like to drink water, salty food can increase thirst, you might be chasing something that is nonexistent. Since there is no treatment for renal hypoplasia it seems like a waste of time and money to do lots of diagnostic testing based on nothing more than polydipsia/polyuria. I would let he puppy grow up, try limiting access to water prior to significant house time, this could be nothing more than a behavioral issue.

 

Good point, I was thinking the pup's SG was 1.006, misread that. The literature does discuss a "partial DI" that can be more concentrated.
Agree that there is nothing in the blood to indicate renal disease. So if you can manage the urine, then there is no rush to do additional testing. Ed's advise to wait may be the ticket. Can always do the US later.

 

Eda and Nate,
Well thats certainly a different perspective. I appreciate it.

She does make it through the night without having to be let out to pee, which seemed kind of weird to me.

Its just that she has been sooooo hard compared to all our other pups to house break and the constant pee, drinking.

I don't know where the blood was evaluated, Ill find out.

I haven't changed how Ive treated her. Im treating her like she will be with us for many years. Just trying to whats best for her and us.

Thanks again
Bryan

 

I can't help with the diagnosis but I will share my experiences dealing with a dog with low urine specific gravity readings. I noticed that your dogs specific gravity reading was 1.016 at the last test. With our dog, we struggle to maintain healthy specific gravity readings and the 1.016 is an area that below this reading the dog sometimes cannot make it through the night without going out or wakes up and has wet her bed without knowing it. She is constantly looking for water and needs to be let out often. I try to maintain a specific gravity close to 1.030. Between 1.016 and 1.030 her need for water drops way off and her behavior is that of a normal dog. when we first started treating her, it was very frustrating giving medication and not knowing the effects and having to go back to the vet often for specific gravity tests. I purchase a portable refractometer from Drs. Foster & Smith. It wasn't very expensive and I believe that for me being able to monitor at home and communicating with our vet, it has saved my dog. I don't know if you will ever need to do this yourself or not but it's a very simple procedure. we have had some real radical swings in specific gravity readings and found out that too high of specific gravity can be very dangerous as well.
Chrly

 

Thanks again to all starting getter better feel on what to do.

I will consult with my vet.

Nate and EdA, Refractometer? The aren't too much, I have some experience using one. Is it worth it to keep some data for the vet? Seems like a way to monitor her that isn't too expensive?

thanks again,
Bryan

Chrly,
Thank you for the info and suggestion!!

 

Update on Jet,

She canines to be very active and appears normal.

she still has issues with peeing in the house. she will sometimes go to the door, scratch, whine or ring the bell to go out. then the next time just pee wherever she happens to be.
Has had some days where she has no accidents in the house.

I did get a refractometer and have taken readings in the morning first pee and then in the afternoon.

Morning SG is averaging about 1.033 afternoons about 1.018 with a low of 1.014.

Im less concerned now but still would welcome your input.