[kennel maiden]

If I thought it would get my dog to a National, I'd emulate all that I could about what you and your fellow contestants do.

I'm sure not saying that 2-sided is better. I'm just saying that I personally am giving it a try and enjoying it.

Chris

Sorry, off topic here Chris, but I can see it again in your Avatar, so just have to ask you. What is that orange stick-thing coming out of your armpit? Saw it in your video of sending too, and nobody enlightened me. Just curious what it is/what it's used for?.... not seen anything like it before. thanks

 

[Breck]

Not Chris but this is the orange thingie.
http://www.dogsafield.com/Days-End-Original-Pro-Heeling-Stick/productinfo/R001-085/
It's used to communicate with hindquarter.
Edit
You can also use it to tap on the chest

 

[Rnd]

Sorry, off topic here Chris, but I can see it again in your Avatar, so just have to ask you. What is that orange stick-thing coming out of your armpit? Saw it in your video of sending too, and nobody enlightened me. Just curious what it is/what it's used for?.... not seen anything like it before. thanks

Breck showed you what it is..

You can see it's application in Chris's (lab) video at about 1:35

 

[Chris Atkinson]

Sorry, off topic here Chris, but I can see it again in your Avatar, so just have to ask you. What is that orange stick-thing coming out of your armpit? Saw it in your video of sending too, and nobody enlightened me. Just curious what it is/what it's used for?.... not seen anything like it before. thanks

I call it a "sit stick" because that is what I picked up from James B. Spencer's book "TRAINING RETRIEVERS FOR THE MARSHES AND MEADOWS". But most folks, call it a "heeling stick".

Kennel Maiden, are you in the UK or Europe? What sorts of retriever work/games/events do you do?

http://www.dogsafield.com/Days-End-Original-Pro-Heeling-Stick/productinfo/R001-085/

 

[Billie]

If I was ambidextrous I might give it a try but after forty years I am not always accurate on one side, pushing and pulling from the left has served me well, why change now?

cuz if it aint broke, dont fix it right?!

 

[crackerd]

Not Chris but this is the orange thingie.
http://www.lcsupply.com/Pro-Healing-Stick/productinfo/PHSTK/

It's used to communicate with hindquarter.

Not off-topic at all, km - if you use it to communicate with the front quarters and to shape heeling.

Now please answer Mr. Atkinson's question(s)

MG

 

[Chris Atkinson]

Not off-topic at all, km - if you use it to communicate with the front quarters and to shape heeling.

Now please answer Mr. Atkinson's question(s)

MG

Ken Bora calls it an "extension of your arm". I tend to like that.

I know for a fact that certain UK trainers who are successful in field trials carry a fan belt that's been cut into a straight piece, in their training bag. They have used it in place of a heeling stick. They've admitted it to me face-to-face and I have no reason to doubt that they were telling the truth.

I will say that in my Avatar picture and in those videos, I'm using it poorly. In the Avatar, I've got it in the wrong hand. In the video, I'm frequently waving it around, rather than holding it up and out of the way on my shoulder out of pup's peripheral view.

In Lardy's Volume I articles, you can see a sit stick in nearly all of the pics. I have gotten in a habit of this: If I'm training, I have a sit stick in my hand...period. At this point I rarely use it. I just carry it to feel "balanced" most of the time.

Chris

 

[Billie]

Dont think I saw this on here yet- if I missed it- oopsie my bad..
So, for the handlers who use two sided heeling, is the command the same for both sides ?

 

[EdA]

Man oh man, heeling sticks and two sided heeling, this stuff is complicated...;-)

 

[huntinman]

Man oh man, heeling sticks and two sided heeling, this stuff is complicated...;-)

And 3 dog collars, winger remotes, radios... Starting to look like Kevin Costner on Tin Cup with all these contraptions!

 

[copterdoc]

I like Illinois Bob's avatar.

That's how I line my dogs.

 

[Chris Atkinson]

Man oh man, heeling sticks and two sided heeling, this stuff is complicated...;-)

It's all in the instructional material I'm following.

I'm not saying it is better or right.

But I'm having fun with it and it is right for me.

Chris

 

[polmaise]

Who would have thought of using a whistle to stop a dog prior to 'yelling at it'?
Just because something has been done for 40 years doesn't mean it's right or wrong?...But it does deserve the Right ,to be 'Better'.Or Not!..Try it ,work at it, use it ,test it,Or Not.
Jeezus, I don't even use e-collar!! and I'm havin a go! ...I'll let you know when it ?.........Well ,I am sure there are plenty that will tell you before then

 

[Breck]

What?
It's hard enough understanding you guys from across the pond when you're not being cryptic.

 

[Bridget Bodine]

No kidding!!!!!

what?
It's hard enough understanding you guys from across the pond when you're not being cryptic.

 

[crackerd]

Robt.'s saying he plans to use this year's bonus from the laird to outfit all his friends with e-collars and heeling sticks - and of course pink Dallesasse whistles, which they will blow 'til their hearts' content when Hearts of Midlothian win the Scottish Cup again. Go you Glorious Jambos!

MG

 

[Breck]

OK Thanks Mike, you're a big help! sic

 

[EdA]

It's all in the instructional material I'm following.

I'm not saying it is better or right.

But I'm having fun with it and it is right for me.

Chris

Chris, dog training is not rigid, there is not one way, a right way, or a wrong way. There are some fundamental principles common to all good dog trainers. If the successful two sided trainers and the successful one sided trainers changed philosophy I expect the results would be the same.

Your new RTF has a high percentage of naive and inexperienced people and I think it is important that they understand that success is not only based on certain sound training principles but also the application of those principles. If I was a naive newcomer and read this dissertation I would conclude that success in field trials was only possible by using two sided heeling and employing a heeling stick in training. If anyone trained with my group they would not see two sided heeling and might only see a heeling stick a few times a year. I have several heeling sticks but I do not remember the last time I used one for anything other than dragging something out of my toolbox that I could not reach.

Almost everyone who trains competition retrievers successfully follows a sequential process adapted to their own personality and preferences. We all train similar but very dissimilar in the way we apply corrections, lack of corrections, and praise.

My intent is not to dismiss what others do or impose on their routine what I/we do but rather to inform the uninformed that there is more than one way to skin a critter. Just MHO and thanks for reading!

 

[Bridget Bodine]

DR ED GETS A PRIZE!! Great Post Doc!!

Chris, dog training is not rigid, there is not one way, a right way, or a wrong way. There are some fundamental principles common to all good dog trainers. If the successful two sided trainers and the successful one sided trainers changed philosophy I expect the results would be the same.

Your new RTF has a high percentage of naive and inexperienced people and I think it is important that they understand that success is not only based on certain sound training principles but also the application of those principles. If I was a naive newcomer and read this dissertation I would conclude that success in field trials was only possible by using two sided heeling and employing a heeling stick in training. If anyone trained with my group they would not see two sided heeling and might only see a heeling stick a few times a year. I have several heeling sticks but I do not remember the last time I used one for anything other than dragging something out of my toolbox that I could not reach.

Almost everyone who trains competition retrievers successfully follows a sequential process adapted to their own personality and preferences. We all train similar but very dissimilar in the way we apply corrections, lack of corrections, and praise.

My intent is not to dismiss what others do or impose on their routine what I/we do but rather to inform the uninformed that there is more than one way to skin a critter. Just MHO and thanks for reading!

 

[Wayne Nutt]

There is one practical aspect of two sided heeling. When duck hunting the door to the blind is not always on the left side. If you have a two sided dog it works much better in my opinion for this.

I have never had a two sided dog but I am trying to teach Rowdy two sides. I started learning the two sided technique with Hank (my sons dog). Both seem to be doing well with it.