[Marvin S]

I get a call from one of my son's today - their Aussie went to dog heaven about 4 months ago at 15, though dog heaven couldn't be much better than her experience here. The family has decided they want a Duck Toller for a lot of reasons, all of them good. Female @ 7 weeks, etc., they normally spay so it is not for breeding. May run some HT's, will be seriously hunted !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anything about the breed that is a major negative or positive? Price, reputable breeders preferably from personal experience, training traits, anything else. PM if it is personal.

 

[labguy]

I get a call from one of my son's today - their Aussie went to dog heaven about 4 months ago at 15, though dog heaven couldn't be much better than her experience here. The family has decided they want a Duck Toller for a lot of reasons, all of them good. Female @ 7 weeks, etc., they normally spay so it is not for breeding. May run some HT's, will be seriously hunted !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anything about the breed that is a major negative or positive? Price, reputable breeders preferably from personal experience, training traits, anything else. PM if it is personal.

Marvin.............please tell me we're not being baited here. Is this just some kind "I'm bored so we'll stir the pot a bit" kind of query???

This subject has been discussed to death but here are a couple of recent links for you to peruse if you haven't already.

http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49925&highlight=nova+scotia+duck+toller

http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=47640

Why am I feeling used here???????????

Always a sucker for good bait regards.

 

[Kasomor]

I get a call from one of my son's today - their Aussie went to dog heaven about 4 months ago at 15, though dog heaven couldn't be much better than her experience here. The family has decided they want a Duck Toller for a lot of reasons, all of them good. Female @ 7 weeks, etc., they normally spay so it is not for breeding. May run some HT's, will be seriously hunted !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anything about the breed that is a major negative or positive? Price, reputable breeders preferably from personal experience, training traits, anything else. PM if it is personal.

Think Labguy has those threads saved to his hard drive. He pounces on posts like yours.

To answer a couple questions...you'll not likely find a toller breeder who places pups at 7 weeks old. If you do...run.

Tollers are not harder or easier to train then any other breed. Train the dog...not the breed.

And talk to breeders who are experienced running HT and/ or who hunt their dogs. Very few breeders actually do either. Most breeders breed for the show ring first and foremost with little thought or experience into what characteristics make a good hunting/HT dog. They may talk the talk but have not walked the walked.

Lots of information out there but most importantly get out and meet the breed. Amazing how many people think they know it all after only working with one dog.

Have a look at this planned breeding http://www.kasomor.com/UpcomingLitter.html

Cheers,

 

[paul young]

since we own 2, i can say that a Toller will probably be a good fit. the energy level will be comparable to the Aussie they had (when it was young).

since they are going to hunt the dog and run some hunt tests, they should be careful about bloodlines, though. there are definitely a few that are head and shoulders above the rest.-Paul

 

[Eric Johnson]

There is a couple in WA that have two CH/MH Tollers, both males. Write me privately and I'll send you the email address. You could check with them on where their dogs have been breeding.

Also, www.nsdtrc-usa.org is the national club site. The club has a breeder referral program and it is included there, as well as a wealth of info.

I agree with Paul (or was it Susan) that the size and energy levels closely match the Aussie so a Toller may well fit.

Eric

 

[Kasomor]

That couple, John and Marie, live in Oregon. Their middle boy, Winston, was nutered last year.

The dog in my avator, Iko is a MH and is out of my SH girl, Trio, and Eddy their MH.

 

[Spoonbill]

May run some HT's, will be seriously hunted !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would strongly suggest your son to ask the breeders for references from hunting homes, and then to make sure his idea of 'serious' hunting matches their's.

Regardless of anyone's biases reading the threads labguy posted should balance the perspective that you'd get by simply talking to toller breeders and researching kennel webpages.

 

[labguy]

Think Labguy has those threads saved to his hard drive. He pounces on posts like yours.

I haven't saved those threads on my hard drive yet but that's a good idea......why??? Because this thing has been beat to death...........give me Melanies sharp stick in the eye anyday over another one of these "Troller" threads.

To answer a couple questions...you'll not likely find a toller breeder who places pups at 7 weeks old. If you do...run.

Now, why is that pray tell???? Is it because Trollers are somehow more "special" as compared to other breeds...........even though all the best scientific evidence to date says that the best time to separate a pup from it's mother for optimum human bonding and trainability is 7 weeks?????? Give me a break.

Tollers are not harder or easier to train then any other breed. Train the dog...not the breed.'

At last, one tiny piece of realism here amidst the hyperbole.

Lots of information out there but most importantly get out and meet the breed. Amazing how many people think they know it all after only working with one dog.

The links I provided have opinions from experienced Toller owners who have a track record of success and accomplishements with that breed who are candid, realisitic and truthful about their opinions and experiences............not just from people with very limited competative and hunting experience who breed them..............

I never should have opened this thread regards,

 

[Marvin S]

Thank You all for posting - I have forwarded the thread info to my son so he can view for himself what is posted.

To LabGuy - this was a serious post, I just have not been into alternate breeds. My next bird dog was going to be a Brit, now I may have to rethink that position. Why are you so testy about this subject?

But I had been looking at Border Terriers & still am. You cannot believe the PETA like responses I have received from breeders about getting a dog at 7 weeks. Needless to say that is non negotiable - been around too many dogs that did not bond. Can't say it was because they were over 7 weeks but know that the one's that were 7 weeks or less always had that extra something. My wife & I plus the boys ran a very successful dog & cat boarding kennel for 20 years so have a very good idea of how a dog should respond.

 

[Kasomor]

Now, why is that pray tell???? Is it because Trollers are somehow more "special" as compared to other breeds...........even though all the best scientific evidence to date says that the best time to separate a pup from it's mother for optimum human bonding and trainability is 7 weeks?????? Give me a break.

I never should have opened this thread regards,

Your right..why do you respond to each and every thread about tollers??? Your hate-on for the breed is just a wee bit silly. And WHY does it bother you so much when people ask about tollers? Maybe you should explore that next time your in the office. Do you respond to every post titled "should I get a lab?" It's obvious that you seem to feel that tollers are going to take over the world...coo-coo-coo-coo...conspiracy theory.

Yup, many old time toller breeders weaned at 7 weeks old when many labs were being shipped at 6. Oh, right, 6 use to be the magic number.

Times are changing, more leave them to at least 8 weeks now. There is probably just as much research that 8 is the optimal date as 7 weeks. I don't care, fact is most toller breeders don't let their pups go until 8 weeks.

Has nothing to do with them being "special." That's another one of your pet words again when slamming the breed... not mine.

Maybe it has something to do with most breeders not vaccinating until pups are 8 weeks old. I don't know anyone who vaccinates same day and ships pup off. Most give a few days to a week to make sure no adverse effect to the vaccine. I know that's what I do.

Give it a rest....... bet you can't.... :razz::razz:

 

[Kasomor]

Thank You .

To LabGuy - this was a serious post, I just have not been into alternate breeds. My next bird dog was going to be a Brit, now I may have to rethink that position. Why are you so testy about this subject?

Didn't you read his asinine posts on his previous rant re:tollers ???

He didn't get laid ....:barf:

 

[labguy]

Your right..why do you respond to each and every thread about tollers??? Your hate-on for the breed is just a wee bit silly. And WHY does it bother you so much when people ask about tollers? Maybe you should explore that next time your in the office. Do you respond to every post titled "should I get a lab?" It's obvious that you seem to feel that tollers are going to take over the world...coo-coo-coo-coo...conspiracy theory.

Yup, many old time toller breeders weaned at 7 weeks old when many labs were being shipped at 6. Oh, right, 6 use to be the magic number.

Times are changing, more leave them to at least 8 weeks now. There is probably just as much research that 8 is the optimal date as 7 weeks. I don't care, fact is most toller breeders don't let their pups go until 8 weeks.

Has nothing to do with them being "special." That's another one of your pet words again when slamming the breed... not mine.

Give it a rest....... bet you can't.... :razz::razz:

There is no slam towards the breed. I do have a huge problem with the misinformation that is posted about them.

Each time one of these threads starts, it's the same old same old. Advice from people with little or no experience with retreivers and what's involved and from owners and breeders whose love for their breed clouds them to reality.

I'm merely trying to insure that accurate information is available............it's not my opinion that matters but those that have experience training these dogs to higher levels...........thus my posting of the links.

Personally, from my limited experience with Tollers is that I think they are capable of much more than has been shown to date. Biggest problem with those dogs is some/most of the people who are drawn to the breed.......but that's another thread.

I'm out of this now.............Marvin. I didn't mean to sound testy. I just tire of the continual misinformation and BS that's spewed forth from some of these people. As your now aware, there is a history about this that has been played out time and time again on this site and others. I just wasn't positively sure of your motives.

Good luck to your son with whatever he decides.

 

[Kasomor]

There is no slam towards the breed. I do have a huge problem with the misinformation that is posted about them.

Each time one of these threads starts, it's the same old same old. Advice from people with little or no experience with retreivers and what's involved and from owners and breeders whose love for their breed clouds them to reality.

I'm merely trying to insure that accurate information is available............it's not my opinion that matters but those that have experience training these dogs to higher levels...........thus my posting of the links.

Personally, from my limited experience with Tollers is that I think they are capable of much more than has been shown to date. Biggest problem with those dogs is some/most of the people who are drawn to the breed.......but that's another thread.

I'm out of this now.............Marvin. I didn't mean to sound testy. I just tire of the continual misinformation and BS that's spewed forth from some of these people. As your now aware, there is a history about this that has been played out time and time again on this site and others. I just wasn't positively sure of your motives.

Good luck to your son with whatever he decides.

You know... there is just as many losers who own labs as own tollers. Actually probably more looser lab owners since there are 4000000000000000000 more times labs then tollers on the planet. It's in the numbers. Just as many lab people spew crap about their dogs and puppies...oh wait there'd be more...again it's in the numbers You need to start a crusade to fix those lab people too.

The majority of people I know and respect in tollers say...get a lab if you are even thinking of getting a lab...and I agree with them! How much more straight forward then that do you personally need???????

But believe it or not there are people in this world that a lab doesn't turn their crank....and a toller does. WOW! Imagine that!

I'm sick to death of being slammed because I support my breed.

I get it a hunt tests and I get it when I'm around some lab people and I'm just as dismayed when someone is sold a bill of goods on a toller pup or a lab pup as you are.

Interesting that golden and flat coat people, on the whole, are all embracing but the lab folks in my area tend to treat toller people like ****.

One of the nicest compliments I got at a SH test was when a judge said to me..."Your toller did a nice job at that."...then he stopped and said, " No sorry, your DOG did a nice job." This from a judge that I didn't know from Adam...but he got IT!

You DON"T get it.

The main reason I'm on RTF is because it makes me see that dogs are dogs not a breed. I see that every breed has the same issues that need to be resolved.

YOU don't see that.....and

YOU still don't get it....I highly doubt that you ever will

 

[Eric Johnson]

Sorry for the mistake Linda. People from Alabama don't say nice things about Oregon for the next month or so.

Eric

 

[Kasomor]

Sorry for the mistake Linda. People from Alabama don't say nice things about Oregon for the next month or so.

Eric

I'm lost. Which isn't unusual. ;-)

Is this a something to do with a sport? Football, perhaps?????

I know how serious you'all are about your football

 

[Eric Johnson]

Yes. Football ....said with an appropriately hushed tone.

I thought John and Marie were in Washington and stand corrected.

Eric

 

[Paul Kartes]

Both Eric and Linda are right.

The bottom line is there is a lot of mis information out there about Tollers.

Do your research.

Linda is correct very few Toller breeders hunt and run hunt tests.
A quick conversation will give you your answers.

I also agree with Eric by contacting the NSDTRC (USA) directly. The breeders listed have a code of ethics they must follow to be on the list.

Paul Kartes