[Wild Sky]

Was wondering how others felt about producing an All Carier Litter.
Sire: FC/AFC, Derby points, Qual for Nat open & Amat

(EIC CLEAR)
OFA Good
Elbows Normal
Eyes Cerf
CNM Clear


Dam QAA MH by 30 mnths Qualified for 2 master Nationals ( BREED Confirmation Certificate )

( EIC AFFECTED ) Never has shown any symptoms
Ofa Good
Elbows Normal
Eyes Cerf
CNM Clear


Just Asking


Jim

http://www.vdl.umn.edu/img/assets/9388/EIC%20Info%20for%20VDL%207-28-08.pdf

 

[Aussie]

Jim,

If the extended pedigree on hips, elbows, eyes, autoimmune and other health issues are excellent/good, sure, if you have educated buyers.

 

[Bud Bass]

The sire sounds great, but get another dam. No excuse for a all carrier liter under those conditions. If the dam was titled and had outstanding accomplishments, I might have a different opinion. You might find that educated buyers for such pups will be more difficult then you thing. Bud

 

[Aussie]

The sire sounds great, but get another dam. No excuse for a all carrier liter under those conditions. Bud

But but but but, as EIC as a simple test, other health issues are/could concern.

Pick your poison. Carriers to clears, history ie PRA and CNM (in labradors) have also shown less than ideal stats, the average 50:50 ratio, would be nice, but in the real world.............

 

[North Mountain]

Is there any information out there on how an EIC affected dam deals with the stress of birth? Would that be cause for concern?

Also if your friends are saying how much they would like a pup from your dam, I'd make them put down a deposit before you breed. I know a fellow who had a nice bitch, Nat'l Open Finalist at 2 that had mild HD. Everyone wanted a pup but when it came time to put down a deposit the buyers were nowhere to be found.

 

[okvet]

I have no problem with that breeding. No affected pups!

 

[Billie]

The sire sounds great, but get another dam. No excuse for a all carrier liter under those conditions. If the dam was titled and had outstanding accomplishments, I might have a different opinion. You might find that educated buyers for such pups will be more difficult then you thing. Bud

She is titled, or does an MH not count as a title anymore? And also QAA- I'd say that is a very accomplished bitch.

 

[Billie]

I have no problem with that breeding. No affected pups!

That is the goal in any breeding ,is to not produce affected puppies (for anything-thats why the ofa hips,elbows,cerf eyes,etc.). thats why we test now for eic.

I think it will depend on your puppy market/buyers , also.
In our world(competition world-that is), we keep our dogs intact for the most part, to see if they would warrant breeding later; but the majority of people are not interested in breeding and have their dogs s/n. Mine are sold on Limited Reg anyway,until that person does the appropriate clearances.
My buyers are mostly hunters and pet people, and only a small handful have ever wanted to breed.
Yes, producing a known carrier makes for tough breeding decisions in the future. With all of us learning the status of our dogs, we all have some difficult decisions to make breedingwise....
We can hope that more and more dogs will be tested,so that we know who we can and can't breed our carriers to.

 

[Franco]

She is titled, or does an MH not count as a title anymore? And also QAA- I'd say that is a very accomplished bitch.

Nice accomplishments but nothing that would have serious FT or HT buying a pup. Alaska Black Dawg is accurate in that you would have a hard time getting deposits.

Being open about the pup's carrier status will run buyers off.

 

[Angie B]

I have no problem with that breeding. No affected pups!

Me either!!!

Angie

 

[Aussie]

Nice accomplishments but nothing that would have serious FT or HT buying a pup. Alaska Black Dawg is accurate in that you would have a hard time getting deposits.

Being open about the pup's carrier status will run buyers off.

But but but, how is anyone going to buy a perfectly clean (from tests available so far), in the US. Even the bestEST largest COLONY breeders produce poor hips or elbows from time to time. And they import/export around the world.

 

[Matt McKenzie]

Last year you wouldn't have even been asking the question. Now that there's a test, we all have to figure out for ouselves where we stand on the issue.

 

[Angie B]

Nice accomplishments but nothing that would have serious FT or HT buying a pup. Alaska Black Dawg is accurate in that you would have a hard time getting deposits.

Being open about the pup's carrier status will run buyers off.

No, and No,,,, Know your market..... The majority of people don't breed the puppies that they're purchasing.

That's it that's all....

The majority of puppy buyers want a dog with the potential to play some type of doggy game, hunt, that's good looking, healthy and easy to train and live with..

Heck most FT's want a winner,,, they could care less about the carrier status,,, as long as the dog is healthy and can meet their competitive expectations.

And the Majority of field trialers don't breed either....

Angie

 

[Franco]

But but but, how is anyone going to buy a perfectly clean (from tests available so far), in the US. Even the bestEST largest COLONY breeders produce poor hips or elbows from time to time. And they import/export around the world.

Getting a sound animal, one with no major skeletal issues is a crapshoot.
One checks for clearences and one rolls the dice with their pick.

Supposedly, now we have a way of tracking EIC clears, carriers and affecteds. There is no bottleneck if one selects 'clear" animals for breeding. As high as the percentage may be for animals(I hate writing dog because it affects both male and female) that have skeletal issues, there are more that don't. And, I know we are dealing in areas that are grey because some skeletal issues are clinical.

Aussie, is the point you are making is that this bitch is so superiorly sound(skeletal) that she warrents pasing on EIC? Then you think the availability of sound animals is prohibitive?

 

[Aussie]

Aussie, is the point you are making is that this bitch is so superiorly sound(skeletal) that she warrents pasing on EIC? Then you think the availability of sound animals is prohibitive?

Yes.......and I think training which we hardly mention, plays a significant part. I add this thought, as we all seem to be focusing on health which no doubt is important.

We dream of great dogs in EVERY way. As far as I am aware, I am the only person who organised a parcel of tests from various concerned breeders/owners from Australia, to be included in the EIC research study. I am health phobic.

What "we" do with our few owned bitches or studs, is hardly going to cause a ripple in the overall breedings. What we do as a whole will make the difference. Judges are certainly not going to make tests easier. History has shown winning dogs are bred, to suit game/sport/interest requirements.

 

[BIG DOG]

i am w/ angie and okvet on this 1 i wouldn't have a problem with it and it did decide to breed said puppy after it titles out and all other health clearences are a go just go back with a eic clear mate

 

[Franco]

What we do as a whole will make the difference.

I agree and you should use as your signature line!

which leads into...

Angie, I used the word serious FT and HT. How many serious FT are going to buy a pup from this litter? FT buyers want to see more AA FT success from nay dam. And folks WILL breed pups from this litter.

OK original poster, Angie says she'll take two and the deposit is in the mail.;-)

I understand the part where you have an FC AFC bitch with the right pedigreee bred to stud NFC NAFC Hot Shot. There is a market that work at the extreme retrieving game known as U S FT's that will buy those pups up in a heartbeat. However, that is not the case here.

 

[Aussie]

I agree and you should use as your signature line!

We all pick up dog poo......sometimes despite our care, we stand in it.

A way to limit EIC affecteds, is for your breed club, to apply to the AKC, that all studs and dams be tested before allowing registration. Will not stop puppy mills.

 

[JeffLusk]

Whats the difference between buying a carrier pup from a Clear x Carrier??

For once Angie and I agree!!!

Just messin with ya Angie!

 

[Wild Sky]

The sire sounds great, but get another dam. No excuse for a all carrier liter under those conditions. If the dam was titled and had outstanding accomplishments, I might have a different opinion. You might find that educated buyers for such pups will be more difficult then you thing. Bud

I would not want any other DAM. Oh I forgot to mention this was my 1st dog to train or run in HT's or Trials. 1st Qualifing either of us ever ran and SHE Won. The goal is to use the info we have to help the breed. I would rather breed Her than get a pup from a Dam that was a Jr hunter and Clear.

Just saying