It seems to be the new norm if you have an FC AFC bitch. The ones I’ve heard of lately that are probably the same ones you inquired on are very competitive, national finalist bitches.

 

Don't be in a hurry. There are good breedings where the pups go for more reasonable prices.

 

If you are looking for a puppy from a FC.AFC Bitch

• You probably need to be part of the secret handshake club
• The lowest price I have seen is $4500

I try to identify promising 2-3 year old bitches, and ask the owners to put me on their future puppy list
My last two puppies were from a FC/AFC bitch that I identified at age 2 as promising

 

The club that secrets everything? Lol haha

 

That seems a bit higher than I have seen for most. It is more in the range of select (National finalist, etc.) all-age bitches. I would think $5,000-$6,000 for a puppy out of an all-age titled bitch. Some may be less, some more. I have seen some interesting repeat breedings from non titled bitches that are a lot more reasonably priced. Some of these may end up being titled, but are still young in their careers.

 

...

 

Just wondering if there s a chart somewhere that indicates how many pups out of a litter 1) title , 2) come from 2 titled parents or 1 titled parent 3) how many litters were bred to get those titled pups.

My belief is that if you get 1 titled pup from a litter you’ve done well and 2 titled is a home run and those litters that get several titled are really rare

my experience in my 3 prefix titled dogs where the only ones in the litter that got titles; 2 of those dogs had both parents titled and the better of the 3 had 1 titled parent.

Recent experience with 2 litters we bred ; 1 litter has produced 1 Fc/ AFC so far at 5 years old ; 1 parent was an FC/Afc and other parent had the wins but just came up short on the points . The 2nd litter had titled parents and has produced an NDC and a ND finalist however at 2.5 years old the all age campaign has not started. In each case the breeding was for us to have a potential competitor and the others were placed in good homes that had the potential to be competitive. The sale price was unimportant
for us as the price of the pup is the cheapest part of the whole deal.

Just as important as that pedigree is health ; the best of them is not any good if laid up with injury. Know about the knee history, the torsion history and about heart issues.
Hopefully you ll find the pup for u
Good luck

 

And people are paying it. So more power to the sellers and buyers. Just wow though. Do we think this is the new norm going forward? I suppose it is.

And people are paying for it , in any department of life .
It is a 'Marketing led world and Market that is led by the world of Internet' .
It's nothing New if you look back a few years ,it was and Is the Norm to sell anything to the highest bidder.
............
Going forward for a seller or a buyer will have different views , no matter the product or produce , unfortunately when a pup is in the equation !??> My one and only agreement of comfort regarding breeding or 'Breeding's' ,is that '60% of any DNA or Inherited traits or potential ability or train abilities are derived from the Bitch' line!
The Dog/Sire , Line or lineage , or achievements in competition are less important in breeding when the Sire/Dog is over 4 years old .
Unfortunately owners and breeders and potential buyers of puppies and Registered authorities of individual breeds and affiliation will always advise prospective owners towards registered and paid members , and Social media platforms will have more likes from Karen , than Bob, and ..........................I bet many will do what thay have always done , and just buy a pup at the going rate and be more than delighted with little (Rufus) . lolx
'Going Forward' ? ....Rafferock, that question was asked 45 years ago and still .
Robert

 

Who you know is important. There are some great breedings out there with young accomplished well bred sires and dams at more normal prices.

 

Nothing like the secret handshake club

 

Here is a good example of what an amateur can do with a no secret handshake required puppy.

HuntingLabPedigree

Online Labrador retriever pedigree database

huntinglabpedigree.com

 

GREAT POINT!!!
“FC to FC” isn’t always an FC.
Count the number of the FC/or AFCs sired by an FC/or AFC that are out of bitches without any FT experience…LOTS!!!

Add up the FC x FC breedings that haven’t produced…same.

It’s about genes, environment, training, etc, etc, etc

Secretariat has been coined the “Greatest horse of All Time”. He not only broke records on the track, he broke records in syndication.
Many (most) of the syndicated investors were disappointed. He wasn’t the sire of Champions many thought he’d be, BUT…he was a fantastic producer of successful brood mares!!!

Great Champions aren’t always Great producers. Male or female.

In 37 yrs of coaching, I coached many sons of fantastic athletes. It was kind of 50-50 on whether the son picked up his fathers’s genes.
For example: I taught the son of Miami Dolphins’ Mark Clayton. His son was no athlete, but he was an incredible musician.
I train with a great guy who has zero athleticism. His daughter was a 4 year starter for the Syracuse Volleyball team.
Never know🤷‍♂️

SORRY FOR THE RAMBLE

 

John Schneider bought Brodie, for I think $1000 because he was thinking about doing some pheasant hunting. 9 open wins, 4 am wins, 3 double headers, 65 points, 8 series at National AM. Works full time. Trained in a cut hayfield Tuesday with his Amateur Group.

 

I love Brody’s story. He and John must make a great team and he must be a remarkably talented dog. Very cool.

 

Yes, thank you everyone. I should have specified that I am not getting one of those pups, I just posted for discussion purposes. Just out of my price range. I had a budget in mind and those prices exceeded it. I have some options of some litters with bitches that are qualifed all age that my "network" has told me about and I am considering those if I like the bitches pedigree. I realize it's all a gamble. There will be washouts in $10,000 litters. And there will be washouts in $2,000 litters. I'm not part of the elite secret handshake club but I do know a few good people. With that said, I do think stacking the deck with a great bitch as the mom of your litter can be helpful. Or maybe not, but at a minimum, it makes me feel like I'm stacking the deck. If the difference was negligible, say $3,000 for a QAA bitch versus $5,000 for FCAFC Bitch. I'd probably pay the premium for an FC bitch. But when the difference is $7,000 ($3,000 vs $10,000) that is a different story. I'll roll the dice with a non-titled bitch.

 

How many 4ths are worth a win?
I think the most valuable stat is points per start.

 

Agree. Lean Mac comes to mind.

 

High $ litter comes to mind. Tubb x Ammo. I believe zero FT titled. I look at the bitch line too. Double check previous offspring ( if any) how siblings did. How tight is it linebred? Outcross breeding? etc. Is the sire consistent in producing like Foxx, Clooney ( loved his sire. Watched him many times)

 

Tubb x Ammo produced Trumpet who never really did anything great in FT's. FLEX x Trumpet, however, produced FC AFC Southwindz Worth Raving About and FC JS's Game On.

 

Having studied Economics in college (and actually graduating) here’s my take on it:
2020 -COVID
-Lockdowns. With everything shutdown people with a dog got a 2nd dog. People looking for something to do got a dog. Quantity demanded caused there to be a shortage. Shortages caused price to increase until quantity supplied caught up giving us a new (higher) price point. Now, with everything costing more due to inflation, combined with everything being opened back up, the consumer has less discretionary income and more options for things to do. Prices are starting to reflect that and the breeders that haven’t figured it out yet are starting to have leftovers.

 

Maybe some litters have leftovers. But a couple of the titled bitch litters I know of have that happened relatively recently were sold before they even considered breeding the bitch.

 

I should’ve added the “good” breedings. You’re right, the great ones pretty much never hit the market and the money doesn’t matter. I was referring mostly to the FC AFC x MH/QAA type puppies.

 

My take is that FC/AFC titled dogs overwhelmingly are dogs owned by people that can afford Pro training by ACCOMPLISHED FT Pros and have the money, time and desire to afford the dog 20+ starts per year. Amateurs give it their all and hope to succeed. When we do, it is SWEET!
Buying a puppy has always been, and will continue to be, largely a chance. You may hedge your bets by selecting a breeding with a deep pedigree top and bottom, but there are no guarantees.

 

This good looking fella is AFC-Rumble in the Jungle-“MAN”. (FC/AFC-Ali x FC/AFC-Gracie)

Man has very few breedings and close to half of his pups were less than $1500
All but 1 of the bitches were not Field Trial titled nor QAA, but all are well bred.

My pup on the list was out of a $900 litter.
5 of the pups highlighted are Amateur trained.
(I’m not sure about the Poplar litter🤷‍♂️)
5 of the pups train in the same training group, and the 5 are out of 3 different bitches.

NICELY bred litters out of non-titled bitches are out there!!!
We’re excited to see how these babies progress over the next few years.

 

#36 Tom
That was a lot of work and good work. !
1 years info is great could you do about this time ea year.
tk u

 

Tom has considerable cyber detective skills, perhaps he should channel those skills to a side gig😉