Last night I was wondering about puppy temperament and correlation with success in the field as field trial dogs or hunt test dogs or even just hunting dogs. To be clear, I am talking about 5-6 month old puppy temperament (not 7 week olds). Some puppies are crazy hyper, some are moderate and some are very chill (this is all relative to a lab puppy). I understand that their success totally depends on their drive in the field and I am sure there are different experiences with each type of temperament. However, is there any common thinking that one type of temperament would be better suited for a certain venue? Or maybe some of you have experience with puppies that were crazy hyper but they never used that energy in the field or maybe you have seen calm puppies "turn it on" in the field and were lights out? I am sure their are experiences of both, just curious if there is a common theme that people generally tend to believe.
Puppy Temperament
birddogn_tc
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Last night I was wondering about puppy temperament and correlation with success in the field as field trial dogs or hunt test dogs or even just hunting dogs. To be clear, I am talking about 5-6 month old puppy temperament (not 7 week olds). Some puppies are crazy hyper, some are moderate and some are very chill (this is all relative to a lab puppy). I understand that their success totally depends on their drive in the field and I am sure there are different experiences with each type of temperament. However, is there any common thinking that one type of temperament would be better suited for a certain venue? Or maybe some of you have experience with puppies that were crazy hyper but they never used that energy in the field or maybe you have seen calm puppies "turn it on" in the field and were lights out? I am sure their are experiences of both, just curious if there is a common theme that people generally tend to believe.
There are a lot more qualified people here than I and I'm sure they will share their views on the topic, but here's my thoughts.
Ideally, my perfect dog would be one that has a "warm" temperament. A little on the energetic side but not off the walls crazy. I think having a high-drive dog is a little more forgiving for a trainer, and IMO it's just easier to work with a dog that won't shut down on you easily. That said, I've seen the calmest of dogs become an all out retrieving machine in the field, and vice versa. Dogs learn the difference in working and lounging, commonly called the on/off switch. There's times when it's nice to have a lap dog, and times when it's nice to have a "hot" dog. Ideally, you can have the best of both worlds.
As far as generalizations, I believe it's generally thought that pups bred from a long line of competition/FT dogs tend to be more hot, which is desirable in the FT game. Dogs that come from a pedigree of pets or hunting only dogs tend to have a cooler temperament. Obviously there are tons of exceptions to both of these, but I think that's the overall generalization if there is such a thing.
Ideally, my perfect dog would be one that has a "warm" temperament. A little on the energetic side but not off the walls crazy. I think having a high-drive dog is a little more forgiving for a trainer, and IMO it's just easier to work with a dog that won't shut down on you easily. That said, I've seen the calmest of dogs become an all out retrieving machine in the field, and vice versa. Dogs learn the difference in working and lounging, commonly called the on/off switch. There's times when it's nice to have a lap dog, and times when it's nice to have a "hot" dog. Ideally, you can have the best of both worlds.
As far as generalizations, I believe it's generally thought that pups bred from a long line of competition/FT dogs tend to be more hot, which is desirable in the FT game. Dogs that come from a pedigree of pets or hunting only dogs tend to have a cooler temperament. Obviously there are tons of exceptions to both of these, but I think that's the overall generalization if there is such a thing.
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My pup is a little over 6 mos old. She is very hyper you first get her out of the crate, playing with other dogs, etc. When we start training though, she 'locks in' and is very focused. She also is an very quick learner who has great eye contact when learning. I don't think being hyper necessarily hurts a dog as long as it doesn't override their focus when the work needs to be done. I was recently watching a DVD from Danny Farmer and Judy Aycock and she was talking about Honcho(NFC FC AFC San Joaquin Honcho) and said he was extremely hyper. Tore several holding blinds down at FT events, etc. She said when he got to the line though, he locked in and was ready to go. Their temperament affects how you train them somewhat, but most of it boils down to their drive and ability(marking, etc) in the field, IMO.
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That's probably true but that wasn't the question. I was curious about temperament, even if it only gets you so far. You've had success and seen many dogs and puppies in your life. Do you see any common ground on how a 6 month old puppy acts in the house versus how he/she does in the field? I get what you are saying in regards to marking and that makes sense, but I was just curious about temperament.
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No, not really. I have the feeling you are trying to make a case for something like great temperament makes a great FT or hunting dog on a 6 month old puppy. Some of those great dogs in the house can't find a pork chop in a paper bag. Good FT dogs can mark. A good temperament is always nice, but it also depends on how he learns, how trainable he is, but at 6 months he is basically just starting formal training. You know more than you did at 8 weeks, but a lot less than you will until they are through the yard and doing multiple marks and blinds. Just because a dog is high doesn't mean they aren't smart and learn quickly. Just because a dog is calm doesn't mean he will excel in competition. What makes a good dog is so much more complicated and it also includes the knowledge of the trainer. Wouldn't it be nice if we knew we had a winner at 6 months based on temperament?
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Nope. Not trying to make a case for anything. Why can't dummies like me just ask broad questions about retrievers? I love dogs. I love Labs. I have a puppy. I'm very interested in the successful dogs in the world but have absolutely zero desire to have my own FC. I will never run in a field trial. I like to learn. I like to learn about dogs and dog training. I'm not out to make a case for anything, I'm just curious. I am VERY aware of this...
"what makes a good dog is so much more complicated and it also includes the knowledge of the trainer."
Well, duh! I'm not THAT dumb. But again, that wasn't my question. I was just asking about common temperament of puppies and correlation to how they act in the field. I know that we can't predict a dogs life on how they act at 6 months, I was just curious what everyone's experiences had been. Maybe it would help if I was more specific like, what was Lean Mac like at 5 months? What about Tubb? Grady? Slider? Joe the Plumbers dog? Your dog? My dog?
I am NOT asking "were they doing 300 yard marks at 4 months old and running hard?" I am asking, what were they like when (or if) they came inside to hang out with the family? Were they bonkers? chill? moderate? That's all I want to know. I'm asking because I'm just curious. And it's Friday. And I'm a dummy. And it's kind of slow here today so why not? I have no hidden agenda. I'm literally just curious.
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I have one that is a slug in the house. Gets up only if he hears something rustling around that could possibly be food. If he sees me take his e-collar off the charger he switches gears and his energy level ramps up immediately. If you hadn't seen him work you'd think I was lying if I told you he was a go-getter in the field. Has been that way since he was a puppy. In fact, someone on this forum used to refer to him as a "barge" (
) because initially he was slower in the water. As he learned what the game was all about he starting turning it on.
) because initially he was slower in the water. As he learned what the game was all about he starting turning it on.
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I have a 4 month old pup that is about as laid back in the house as you could expect a 4 month old to be. Take him out for retrieving and the engines start. Drive with him in the front seat of the truck and he sleeps...as soon as you turn off the truck he is'at the ready'. Show him a bird and oh boy...You'd wonder where that drive was hidden...rather enjoy it. he us also one of the easiest dogs I've ever had..training and not training.
he us also one of the easiest dogs I've ever had..training and not training.
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That's a great nickname. haha. Thanks for the response.I have one that is a slug in the house. Gets up only if he hears something rustling around that could possibly be food. If he sees me take his e-collar off the charger he switches gears and his energy level ramps up immediately. If you hadn't seen him work you'd think I was lying if I told you he was a go-getter in the field. Has been that way since he was a puppy. In fact, someone on this forum used to refer to him as a "barge" (
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Since my dog is only just now turning 2... the verdict is still out. She has all the FC/AFC, etc... genes you can cram into one pedigree. At 6 months she was predictably wild and crazy. She went through her basics looking well enough. But her wild and crazy pretty much continued and in all honesty it didn't look so promising for quite a while. When you can't get a dog steady... it's hard to know if she can mark and remember more than one bird at a time. And she was not a lot of fun to have around the house either.
OK... but now, it really looks much improved. She's a fine dog around the house, a great companion. A sweetheart. And though we'll never take her for granted, she's steady. So... who knows. Has this improvement been something that was just going to happen, or was it the result of perseverance and great training (and she's had a very persistent pro who was willing to keep working with her...). One never knows, but she is not the dog now that she was at 6 months.
FWIW
OK... but now, it really looks much improved. She's a fine dog around the house, a great companion. A sweetheart. And though we'll never take her for granted, she's steady. So... who knows. Has this improvement been something that was just going to happen, or was it the result of perseverance and great training (and she's had a very persistent pro who was willing to keep working with her...). One never knows, but she is not the dog now that she was at 6 months.
FWIW
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Mine is and always has been moderate in the house, makes a great family dog and at 18 months has all the makings of a MH quality dog. He's a nice balance for a family dog, hunting dog, and HT dog.
my buddy has another with equal talent. He's a PIA in the house. Both are the same age. Part is how we raised different dogs, part is genetics. Disposition in the house only means so much in the field.
honestly though, I'd take a more high energy dog and have to work to tone it down than a lazy worthless dog any day. It's great to have an off switch. It can often be dialed back. Hard to do the opposite.
my buddy has another with equal talent. He's a PIA in the house. Both are the same age. Part is how we raised different dogs, part is genetics. Disposition in the house only means so much in the field.
honestly though, I'd take a more high energy dog and have to work to tone it down than a lazy worthless dog any day. It's great to have an off switch. It can often be dialed back. Hard to do the opposite.
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