[freefall319]

I am teaching my pup to steady (have been for a while now) & she does very well on land. But, from time to time (say 1-10 or so) when we do water marks she'll tend to creep or break slowly, even off of her Ruff stand. My quesion is, should I stop/recall her and send her again after she's heel'd up if she breaks? Or should I let her finish the mark?

She is almost 6months, formalizing OB, CC to "here" & "kennel" (I command kennel to get on her stand as well) & we are following the SmartWorks series.

Any advice/input would be appriciated.

 

[BonMallari]

NEVER condone a break by allowing the dog to retrieve the bird...even if you dont play the dog games...dogs allowed to break are usually the ones that are already in the decoys when they hear the safety click off and the hunter raises his/her gun to shoot

 

[freefall319]

NEVER condone a break by allowing the dog to retrieve the bird...even if you dont play the dog games...dogs allowed to break are usually the ones that are already in the decoys when they hear the safety click off and the hunter raises his/her gun to shoot

Thanks, I have been re-calling her if she breaks and sending her again or picking up the bird if I can and starting over. I just wanted to be sure I was training it correctly.

 

[Lenore]

Are you doing anything else besides re-calling her?

What I was taught that when they break, whistle sit and just as quickly give them a swat on the bottom. I carry my heeling stick almost always, if they still ignore the swat, I'll give a correction. Hope that helps.

 

[freefall319]

Are you doing anything else besides re-calling her?

What I was taught that when they break, whistle sit and just as quickly give them a swat on the bottom. I carry my heeling stick almost always, if they still ignore the swat, I'll give a correction. Hope that helps.

If she's in the water I will give her the "come in" whistle, if she ignores it she get's nicked because she know's and is CC'd to "come in/here". Once she returns I tell her no and make her sit and wait. If she breaks on land she get's the stick as soon as I notice her move. Kind of hard to do in the water.

 

[Lenore]

If she's in the water I will give her the "come in" whistle, if she ignores it she get's nicked because she know's and is CC'd to "come in/here". Once she returns I tell her no and make her sit and wait. If she breaks on land she get's the stick as soon as I notice her move. Kind of hard to do in the water.

Ok, gotcha ya! When the pro told/showed me the heeling stick trick, he said they use that more because at a trial you don't have a collar. Sounds like you are on the right track! Keep up the good work!

 

[Evan]

A significant aspect of steadying should include making your correction, as best you can (timing is important), but then don't give her the mark. Have your gunner pick it up and re-throw until she's rock steady. Condition her to earn her marks through steadiness.

Evan

 

[Otter22]

when they break, whistle sit and just as quickly give them a swat on the bottom... if they still ignore the swat, I'll give a correction.

100% agree with Lenore,

A few other things:

1. Honoring: If you know some folks that have dogs get together for water work. If your dog breaks do your normal routine ("Sit" Swat "Sit", or put a Nick in there if your doing it on more than one occasion). Once your dog is sitting on the stand your buddy sends his dog. This is a good intro to Honoring and will help your pup's progression of steadying as well as remind him not every mark is his.

2. If you don't have friends or a club to meet up with do denials. Throw a bumper on land, walk out leaving your dog in the sit position and pick it up and then return to his side. Once this is going smoothly try some stand alones where you walk in the field and throw the bumper. Any movement gets a correction ("Sit" Nick "Sit"). After a few successful sessions of this introduce diversions (a primer pistol shot, some "hey, hey", throw the bumper over his shoulder, use live birds, etc.).

3. If the above does not work revisit OB in the Yard. Don't use "stay" as a command. Sit should mean sit, ANY MOVEMENT should be corrected (whinning, shifting onto the side of a leg, bugging, etc.).

Give the dog plenty of praise and work at it a little over time. Breaking a healing stick or frying your dog until well done isn't going to do him or you any favors. If you do "happy" bumpers wheen off them for a bit. Your sending your dog mixed messages when there young and your throwing it one minute and letting them break and then want them to not blink or fart until you say go. Set a standard and hold it.

Hope this helps,

Aaron

 

[John Lash]

[

She is almost 6months, formalizing OB, CC to "here" & "kennel" (I command kennel to get on her stand as well) & we are following the SmartWorks series.

I would suggest holding her by the collar or a tab. It's pretty easy to put the stop in them, and hard to put the go...

John Lash

 

[DarrinGreene]

Funny John, I had the same question/comment.

 

[freefall319]

[

She is almost 6months, formalizing OB, CC to "here" & "kennel" (I command kennel to get on her stand as well) & we are following the SmartWorks series.

I would suggest holding her by the collar or a tab. It's pretty easy to put the stop in them, and hard to put the go...

John Lash

It's kind of difficult to do this because I throw 90% of her marks from my side because I dont have anyone to throw them for me. She is steady a good majority of the time. It's just every now and then that this come's up and it is almost always over water. Her love to swim and seeing the splash get the better of her sometimes. IMO, I believe that she is passed needing to be held. I just wanted to be sure that I was dealing with her break's in the proper way.

With your pup's, If you are holding her collar then what do you look for to start letting go?

 

[freefall319]

100% agree with Lenore,

A few other things:

1. Honoring: If you know some folks that have dogs get together for water work. If your dog breaks do your normal routine ("Sit" Swat "Sit", or put a Nick in there if your doing it on more than one occasion). Once your dog is sitting on the stand your buddy sends his dog. This is a good intro to Honoring and will help your pup's progression of steadying as well as remind him not every mark is his.

2. If you don't have friends or a club to meet up with do denials. Throw a bumper on land, walk out leaving your dog in the sit position and pick it up and then return to his side. Once this is going smoothly try some stand alones where you walk in the field and throw the bumper. Any movement gets a correction ("Sit" Nick "Sit"). After a few successful sessions of this introduce diversions (a primer pistol shot, some "hey, hey", throw the bumper over his shoulder, use live birds, etc.).

3. If the above does not work revisit OB in the Yard. Don't use "stay" as a command. Sit should mean sit, ANY MOVEMENT should be corrected (whinning, shifting onto the side of a leg, bugging, etc.).


Hope this helps,

Aaron

Honoring is something that she would need a lot of work on. I am hoping to get to do some training with some other dog's to work on that.

I will start doing the denials, seem's like a good drill.

I cant do the stand alone's because she is not CC'd to sit yet. But, that will be something we will do when the time comes.

Thanks for the ideas.

 

[Deadeye]

I don't use e-collars, rather intermittently have a 6 foot small rope. Put your foot on the rope, leave some slack. Dog takes off, she gets immediate correction. I have found new places, added distractions or sometimes longer retrieves add a new level to obedience/steadyness. Make sure you are not moving too fast with next levels of retrieving. It is ok to go back a little. Ditto on the diversion bumpers, however, I do occasionally use a "fun" tennis ball. I have found my dog's key is the tennis ball, really amazing, again intermittently. Timing of correction is so critical.

 

[John Lash]

With your pup's, If you are holding her collar then what do you look for to start letting go?

Another 2 or 3 months...

Seriously though, maybe the way you're doing it won't hurt a thing. I don't know what your expectations and plans are.

I understand that you don't have a helper. If and when you get a helper it's good to hold the dog even squatting down behind them and wrapping your hands around their chest so you can be sure they see the mark. Letting them go as it hits the ground.

In my opinion with a young dog you want them to have a lot of desire and be crazy to get marks before you get too strict with steadiness. Once they "have it" then you can get strict. Honoring, calling them back, correcting them is all for later in their young lives. A lot of things can get confusing for them as training progresses and desire can help get you through the rough spots.

John Lash

 

[freefall319]

With your pup's, If you are holding her collar then what do you look for to start letting go?

Another 2 or 3 months...

Seriously though, maybe the way you're doing it won't hurt a thing. I don't know what your expectations and plans are.

I understand that you don't have a helper. If and when you get a helper it's good to hold the dog even squatting down behind them and wrapping your hands around their chest so you can be sure they see the mark. Letting them go as it hits the ground.

In my opinion with a young dog you want them to have a lot of desire and be crazy to get marks before you get too strict with steadiness. Once they "have it" then you can get strict. Honoring, calling them back, correcting them is all for later in their young lives. A lot of things can get confusing for them as training progresses and desire can help get you through the rough spots.

John Lash

Maybey i'll grab a short flat lead that wont get in the way as she swims to help keep her honest.

As far as expectations go, I want a solid/obedient/steady hunting dog that I can handle on land/water. I may run her in some HT's in the spring, but a "Title" is'nt my goal. But, it would be nice.

 

[John Lash]

Once they're "kinda steady" get about a 3 foot piece of 1/4" rope. Tie a small loop in the end. Put the small loop under your belt on the side the dog heels on. Run the free end of the rope through the small loop. Now it's tied to you. Run the free end of the rope through the dog's collar and hold onto the end of it. When you release the dog just let go of the free end.

Or just tie about a 10" piece onto the collar and hold onto that, don't use anything too long in the water.

John Lash

 

[Evan]

Maybey i'll grab a short flat lead that wont get in the way as she swims to help keep her honest.

As far as expectations go, I want a solid/obedient/steady hunting dog that I can handle on land/water. I may run her in some HT's in the spring, but a "Title" is'nt my goal. But, it would be nice.

You mentioned formalizing obedience. You've used a heeling stick for "Sit"? When your dog 'breaks', she's breaking "sit". Why not stick to 'sit'? Check cords/ropes/leads all correct significantly after the fact compared to correcting for the real violation - in the moment.

Evan

 

[DarrinGreene]

Why not spend another 3 months teaching the dog to sit until released while you do your yard work and use your marks for fun to balance them out?

If you're unsure how to correct for sit violations in this setting you probably aren't near where you need to be with your obedience to ask for steadiness in the first place.

Don't be in such a rush. You'll be surprised if you are thorough in the yard, how easy steadiness can be.

 

[freefall319]

You mentioned formalizing obedience. You've used a heeling stick for "Sit"? When your dog 'breaks', she's breaking "sit". Why not stick to 'sit'? Check cords/ropes/leads all correct significantly after the fact compared to correcting for the real violation - in the moment.

Evan

Yes, I am using the stick for sit & I use it when she creep's on land marks. But, it's when she get's off of her Ruff stand on water marks that I am having the issue with. Hard to stick a swimming dog.

This issue is'nt every mark or even 1/2. It's just one here and there where she get's excited and creep's forward, which lead's to her falling off the stand and she takes off swimming.

 

[J. Walker]

Are you doing anything else besides re-calling her?

What I was taught that when they break, whistle sit and just as quickly give them a swat on the bottom. I carry my heeling stick almost always, if they still ignore the swat, I'll give a correction. Hope that helps.

You must be joking, right??? The pup is six months old! Breaking here or there is inevitable at that age. THE PUP IS STILL LEARNING. Nothing like inducing a bad training and retrieving attitude.