Not the easiest way to feed a dog.

 

There are a few folks who feed raw here that I know of and probably a couple of more. All in all, not a high percentage. The interwebs are full of info on raw diets though and many variations thereof.

I haven't done it regularly myself but folks who do say it really isn't that difficult or time consuming.

 

Wait till your pup is full grown. No offense, but since you are asking about it tells me you don't have the experience to balance things out, and you do have to balance a raw diet. For a pup, balance is very important.

If you wanna buy a complete and balanced raw diet, they are plentiful but plan on spending $8 - $10 a day to feed it.

The best dry foods that people think are so expensive, cost a fraction of complete and balanced raw diets.

 

With respects to the poster and keeping in the Christmas spirit: Ba Humbug! $10/ day to feed RAW? Maybe if you go to a New York City butcher. I feed my retrievers (plural), RAW, and it doesn't cost me any more than the 5-Star dry dog food on today's market.

 

If I had more time I would absolutely do this, I don't think you would have any complaints from your pup! Here in Wisco you can sign up to recieve fresh roadkill deer, don't know if the police department in your area does this but it might be a good way to get a hold of a bunch of meat. I'm excited to see where you go with this, gonna do some research of my own...

http://www.dogguide.net/raw-diet-basics.php

 

I fed my older Lab raw for several years. I found the Leerburg kennel a good resource as he has some example diets for his Malinois, which are about the same size as your basic Labrador (http://leerburg.com/diet2.htm). She did great on it. I quit when I got my younger dog as she did not care for it.

I had trouble finding organ meat in the stores. I could find lots of chicken and turkey gizzards and livers, especially around the holidays (stock up now if you are going to go for it!), other organ meats were hit and miss.

There are a couple boutique pet stores by my house that sell frozen packets of raw food for pets---I think I could feed a dog using that stuff for a couple dollars per day. You can also get stuff like this and cook it for your dog, if you are squeamish about the raw meat.

I trust myself to feed my family fresh food. I don't think it is so hard to figure out how to feed a dog.

 

I fed my older Lab raw for several years. I found the Leerburg kennel a good resource as he has some example diets for his Malinois, which are about the same size as your basic Labrador (http://leerburg.com/diet2.htm). She did great on it. I quit when I got my younger dog as she did not care for it.

I had trouble finding organ meat in the stores. I could find lots of chicken and turkey gizzards and livers, especially around the holidays (stock up now if you are going to go for it!), other organ meats were hit and miss.

There are a couple boutique pet stores by my house that sell frozen packets of raw food for pets---I think I could feed a dog using that stuff for a couple dollars per day. You can also get stuff like this and cook it for your dog, if you are squeamish about the raw meat.

I trust myself to feed my family fresh food. I don't think it is so hard to figure out how to feed a dog.

I am fortunate on the organ availability. I work for a very large meat processor and I have easy access to beef liver, kidneys, hearts, stomachs or anything from a cow that would be required. Femur bones from a steer are a pretty good "chew toy" Hahahahahaha

 

I love my dogs and want the best for them including nutrition, I trust their diets to be formulated by animal nutritionists rather than people with no formal training in animal nutrition who post on the internet.

 

Wha....what? So, I guess the highly schooled, highly trained vets who advocate RAW diets and who post on the Internet are not legit?

 

Contact Tony Zappia (tzappia) on this forum. Or go to his facebook page (facebook.com/tony.c.zappia). He is "hot" on the benefits of the "raw diet" and will explain.

 

Go for it! You will never regret it.

 

Turkey neck Thursdays

 

Chicken foot. Mmmmmmmmm.

 

View attachment 20985
Chicken foot. Mmmmmmmmm.

Does your dog eat those? My Sophie just left those in her dish.

 

I am firmly convinced based on extensive research and my own experience that a raw diet Is the healthiest way to feed a dog. Having said that, it's kind of a PITA. At best, it's not nearly as convenient as kibble especially when traveling.

 

PITA? Have you ever traveled with children? ...

 

I supplement with a meal or two a week with raw, I wish I could go do it full time. But as previously stated it does take a little more time and effort.

 

myth or fact? Feeding your dog goose or duck would create a problem retrieving? such as dog wants to eat bird or hard mouth? my thoughts are dog would eat a bird, just curious?

 

Huge myth!

 

I would not feed raw to a puppy because of the uncertainty of the amount of minerals being consumed that could lead to poor joint formation. JMO. Main reason is the inability of young pups to self regulate calcium ...once the kidneys are well developed they excrete any excess consumed.

If you want something better, it could be achieved by following DR Pitcairn's book, Complete Guide to Natural Health for dogs and cats.

 

Whole foods are healthier for all living creatures versus processed food. Kibble is for convenience, as most all processed foods are. We all eat them, but more whole foods are better. If you have the time and money to feed your dog a well-balanced whole foods diet (cooked or raw), more power to you. It takes some research and planning, but it is no rocket surgery. I don't value raw over cooked whole foods, however, as there seems to be no physiological basis for that idea. We supplement a moderate-high quality kibble with raw and cooked foods.

 

My only experience w/ raw diet being fed to dogs are from friends. One pup who was raw fed from a nice litter several years ago ended up w/ horrible conformation (wasn't like that when he was 8 wks when I eval'd the litter either!) and Grade 3 elbows. All the other pups who were OFAd passed.

Another friend had bought a pup from me back in 1999. I always have recommended Euk LBP for my pups the first 12-14 mos. Her boy (fed as recommended) came back Exc hips, Normal elbows. She bought another lab from a raw feeder and continued feeding per that breeder's guidance, and she failed Elbows w/ a Grade 3 w/ that girl. Convinced it was not hereditary, she bred that girl to my boy, and kept 2 puppies, fed raw... you guessed it, they BOTH failed elbows but had Exc hips...

I make it a point that if someone is dead set on feeding raw from the beginning that my healthy warranty is null and void. I've had no failures on OFAs where dogs were fed Euk LBP as pups (15 yrs now), and they grow so much more uniform now.

 

The rational for feeding raw diets is primarily based on ideas about the evolution of dogs and the supposed benefits of un-processed over processed food.

However, I cannot for the life of me find any solid "scientific evidence" of the benefits of raw diets. Lots of anecdotal evidence. Lots of evidence of risks.

Here are two reviews of the literature both indicating no evidence.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3003575/

http://cms.abvma.ca/uploads/Raw-Food-Diets-fact-sheet.pdf

If somebody has evidence post it up!

 

The article you posted is published in a journal funded by feed companies. It is not exactly objective.

Here's a crazy one, processed foods are giving us cancer: http://dx.doi.org/10.14202/vetworld.2013.632-639

 

My grandfather raised and trained hunting dogs (Llewellen setters) and took out hunting parties in the Washington DC area in the early 1900's. Wish I had known him to ask about the dogs, but he died long before I was born. My mother told stories about him cooking a large kettle of dog food outside over an open fire every weekend, because my grandmother wouldn't allow him to cook that stuff in the house. I never thought to ask what was in it, sure wish I had. Apparently there was no commercial dog food then, or it was too expensive.

We fed Jake raw when he was young. We'll never know if the chronic IBS he developed was because of something about the raw diet or in spite of it, but he sure didn't tolerate it well. Oddly enough, he has grade II rand grade III elbows too, although they don't seem to bother him.

 

I have been feeding raw for over 13 years. I've raised not only puppies, but litters of puppies on raw. I currently feed and travel with 5 raw fed retrievers. It takes up a bit more space but it's not that difficult to manage and it is certainly no more expensive than the higher quality kibble. I've helped many people transition their pets, dogs and cats, young and old, some with health issues looking for a more natural diet. There are plenty of reports on the internet to both support and discredit raw feeding, so I'm not going to argue back and forth. Feeding raw was a choice I made years ago which helped my then 7 yo who was quite sick, live to be 14. Yes, I do credit his longevity to the change in diet as his issues were directly related to digestion. I chose to continue with raw moving forward and have never looked back. I have had many dogs over the years and not one has been fed kibble. I am not arguing raw vs kibble, I am simply saying raw is very safe and very doable. To the OP, If you'd like to chat about options feeding raw, please PM me. I'd be happy to share whatever information I can.

 

The raw feeding crowd had always relied upon the "evolutionary argument", meaning dogs and wolves were so closely related that a raw diet was the only thing they should eat. A few years back the esteemed Uppsala University did a study that proved this was totally incorrect and that dogs have a very different genetic make-up and in fact carbohydrates and cooked meat and grain was their ancestral diet.

http://www.nature.com/news/dog-s-dinner-was-key-to-domestication-1.12280

There is more proof that kibble is more closely related to what dogs ate than prey.

When it comes to cooked versus raw protein, there is no question cooked protein is more digestible than raw protein because heat unbundles the protein molecule. In eggs for example, raw egg protein is about 25% digestible while cooked egg is over 90% digestible.

Human evolution really advanced quickly when people learned to cook food because it was more digestible.

 

t. A few years back the esteemed Uppsala University did a study that proved this was totally incorrect and that dogs have a very different genetic make-up and in fact carbohydrates and cooked meat and grain was their ancestral diet.

http://www.nature.com/news/dog-s-dinner-was-key-to-domestication-1.12280
.

I'm curious, did the study indicate which one of the pack dogs did the cooking??

 

Im curious: Are we trying to turn our dogs into humans? I kinda think so. And I'm somewhat guilty as mine sleep wherever they want to sleep on in the house, I talk to them like I speak with other members of the house, sometimes play with them like I would play with children and, to be quite honest - I'm probably more afectionate with them than I am with many folks whom I associate with. But that said, and getting back to this Thread, I just don't see where in the last 60 years of kibble manufacturing we think it's appropriate to turn our dogs into cereal eaters. For example: look at their teeth: unlike our molars that are flat for grinding grains, a dog's back teeth are shaped like razors. In fact their entire tooth structure is designed to rip and tear apart meat and to grind and snap bones. Their jaws are unlike ours: A dog cannot move its' jaw from side to side. A grain eater has sideway motion to their jaw to grind. A dog's jaw is designed as a big hinge in order to take large chunks of meat. Let's compare a dog's pH level to a humans: A dog's pH level is about 1 while ours is between 4/5. That highly acid kills most of the bacteria found in less-than-fresh consumables. It also helps digest bits of bone. Now, I'm not turning my nose up to dry kibble as my dogs in training all eat kibble that I select and drop ship to each pro. I do rotate brands of kibble with my dogs, and for the record I use Fromm, Dr. Tim's, Orijen and Nature's Variety. However, when my dogs are home they get the Zappia Royal Treatment feeding program of fresh meats, veggies, etc. No kibble. Now, I'm not a research scientist, like a number of RTF members, but I am (somewhat) bright enough to notice big differences in the two nutrition programs. I have a 7 year old Golden who is affected by Ichthyosis - a skin condition that resembles large flakes of dandruff. When she was eating kibble, I could not control the flakes. After I have switched her to a RAW diet, I cannot find a hint of a flake on her. Moreover, her coat is silky smooth, I have no more ear issues and her breath is fresh and teeth are immaculate. But, these are just simple observations from a simple dog owner and not a research scientist. I also have a very spry 14 year old golden who is on the same diet and is doing quite well. Don't know if it's the diet or plain luck.... or maybe a little of both. TZ

 

To each own his as I said earlier. Like Dennis says "my dog better than yours"" Could be the genes, could be anything? And it is an opinion from each of us. I think my own fellows are great on dog food and look great, with a great deal of energy.JMHO

 

I switched over to Raw 4 months ago because of the increase in cost of the kibble I was feeding.. I have my 2 oldest on it and am now spending less than I did on kibble per month for them. I feed vension along with beef pork and poultry on a regular basis.Most of the meats I feed are sourced all organic . It can be done if you take the time to research and know where to shop..That being said, I still don't know if I would feed to a dog under the age of 1

 

My RAW costs equate to approximately $1.50/pound.

 

I have done raw, home cooked, and kibble, and currently all 3 are on kibble. Not a nutritionist, either, but I've managed not to kill my husband or my children so far attempting to provide a balanced diet. Why do we agonize over feeding the perfect diet to our dogs when we don't worry about it so much with our own nutrition?

One thing I noticed with our raw fed dog: his teeth were immaculate, gleaming white with no tarter whatsoever. Now that he's back on kibble and has been for a year, the tarter is coming back. Just one part of the equation, but cleaner teeth were quite obvious in our little home experiment.

 

Kraka, old friend, have you implored our unimpeachable source "yellow dog" to weigh in here? No, heaven forfend, please, don't... - but another perspective would come from the "the medicine man" in sled dog circles, Dr. Arleigh Reynolds. Didn't read this entire thread to see if anyone else has cited Dr. Reynolds, but here's an older article outlining an idea that I subscribe to - supplemental raw feeding - for retrieving gundogs if not mushing dogs. Of course, I also feed my dogs (top-dressing) canine caviar - which would be deer entrails. Like Tony (and many here) I have only empirical evidence of benefits - but they look pretty good to me after years of scarfing down lungs and deer "green tripe." (OK, some of the liver and heart too - but that's more my bailiwick...)

And in reply to Tony's "Turkey neck Thursdays" mine have "Chicken backs daily" (from the Amish butcher) - unless snow goose carcasses are available. And no, they don't sprout white feathers nor try to fly, nor

eat a goose en route back with a retrieve. Just as they don't chase deer because they've eaten venison or some semblance or appendage thereof -

they're way too old for that, anyhow - and as with Tony's 14-year-old golden, I'm thinking the supplemental raw diet has played a pretty darn decent part in getting them "good and old."

MG

 

The difference between Whole Foods vs. Processed Foods.....