The answer to your question depends on what kind of training you've done up til now.

What you are trying to teach is taught after completing a thorough basics program including collar conditioning (as you are using the ecollar)and you have taught the dog how to handle on land (pattern blinds, blind drills, pattern blinds with diversions, elementary cold blinds).

How you teach the dog to be honest in the water will depend on how you taught everything up to now. For example, someone may suggest you use indirect pressure after a cast refusal. That may or may not be the right thing to do, but it would certainly be the wrong thing to do if your dog had not been introduced to indirect pressure during basics and transition.

What have you done up to now? Are you following any particular program?

 

Have you done swim-by?

 

I'm with the captain. If you haven't done run by or swim by, you probably won't get much reaction when you try to handle on the way back, which is the way I'd work on it.

 

Agree!!!Swim by important to assist you!!

 

I got the dog 3 years ago. He had training through a professional. When I got him I started the process all over because the people who had him wasn't able to work him much. He learns very easy. He runs triple marks perfect on land and water. Runs blinds perfect. I would say he takes hand signals very good on land and water. I have done swimby with him but its been awhile. Thinking I may need to go back and refresh on it. He has just started cheating the bank. I have followed the fowl dawgs program and watched several others.

 

I got the dog 3 years ago. He had training through a professional. When I got him I started the process all over because the people who had him wasn't able to work him much. He learns very easy. He runs triple marks perfect on land and water. Runs blinds perfect. I would say he takes hand signals very good on land and water. I have done swimby with him but its been awhile. Thinking I may need to go back and refresh on it. He has just started cheating the bank. I have followed the fowl dawgs program and watched several others.

If he runs marks and blinds perfect, I wouldn't do anything. But anyway...

You mentioned that you "With low stimulation I would nick, nick, nick while he was cheating to the bank and give him an over."

Not sure that this method is consistent/compatible with Fowl Dawgs but I could be wrong. Chris Akin uses a low stimulation nick, nick, nick while decheating but what I've seen of it it was done in more of a drill like atmosphere as Lardy does (drill-like like Lardy...the methods are totally different). Also Chris nicks, nicks, nicks when the dog is on land on the return. He then tosses a bumper away from shore so the dog can't cheat. The idea is dog on land = nick, nick, nick (on return only-let them cheat on the way out); dog in water = no nicks. This is done at the corner of a pond. One down the shore, one in open water. It doesn't take long for the dog to get back in the water when the nick hits when returning on the down the shore. Again, I'm not sure this method is the best approach for a dog that has been trained in a much different way.

 

Work as hard on Swim-by as conditions allow. Shine it up so the dog is giving you prompt, accurate responses reliably. Then put it to work on those cheaty returns. Start short, and gradually extend distance, and degree of temptation.

Evan

 

Yes, the swim-by. If you’ve had the opportunity to see different trainers using this drill, live or DVD, or if you’ve used it yourself fairly extensively, you’ll see that dogs “get” the drill in later stages, to the point that they will “automatically” give you a swim-by unless or until you say “OK” or use your whistle as a cue/permission to come to land. Get to that point with the drill, and take advantage of this in training and trials, require some swim-by on all returns for a while or until your feel your issue has been erased. If/when this starts slipping, go back to drill and refresh.
In other words, if you you use the drill to get the dog in the frame of mind to where the norm is for the dog to give you a swim-by unless you "allow" the dog to come to shore, you're really solving your problem as compared to just being able to handle the dog on the return.

 

Probably goes without saying, but stop throwing bumpers where cheating is possible until you have successfully completed swim-by. Don't solidify a bad habit. Swim-by was the one area that I used a professional for..well worth it.

 

Yes, do swim-by. Stop throwing cheating marks for now. But, to answer your question. After the dog picks up the mark, walk away from the cheating bank, while blowing the come in whistle. If that does not work. Stop the dog at the cheat. Walk around, take the dog back to where the mark was. Sit the dog down, walk back around and try again. Again, walking away from the cheating bank. It may take a couple of times. Sometimes you have to go old school. Does not matter what program you are using, use your head and break it down.

 

Thanks to everyone for the good advice on my problem. I am going to start on swimby today and continue everyday until he gets it with no problem. Right now the only pond I have close access to is a little big. I would say 40 yards by 65 yards. Is this to big? I guess I could stand with the 65 yard bank in front of me.

 

On a calm day, you can have the back pile (only 1 bumper at a time) in the water. Use the 40 yard width for the overs and toss one out 10 yards or so for the back. Toss another bumper to the back pile when the dog is returning. Saw Chris Akin do this with a water T demonstration (he doesn't do swim-by) and it worked fine.

 

Cheating the return can be a big problem even if your just hunting. In some places there can be dangers along the bank on down from you that the dog doesnt no about. Im manily wanting to just sharpen up on a few things before I put him back into test. I have worked alot on blinds with him. He picks up cold blinds 150 yards out while hunting. I know your saying howd you shoot a bird that far out? I go to Arkansas every year and hunt rice fields with him. You may shoot a bird at 40 yards, but it gets in them strong winds out there and ends up 100+ yards.

 

As a rookie trainer when I was teaching my dog not to cheat the bank on the return if she was heading toward the left bank I would walk to the right of the spot I sent her from while calling her with a whistle and over correct her then give praise as she came to me and line myself up at an easy exit point to build confidence that this was the best spot to beach.As she understood to come to ME I would take less steps to my right and work my way back to where I never left the origanal line but if she looked like she wanted to beach early I'd get on the come in whistle and wave my right hand .then once she learned it I would nick with a strong NO HERE. In my minds eye I was basicly doing the chines fan drill with marks once she understood to get a correction out of it .Just wondering if this would work in this case or since the dog already understood cheating you went straight to corrections. Idid this all before before swim-by and it seemed she conquered swim by with no cheating issues .I posted this as more of a question then an answer but this ran through my mind upon reading the thread if it would work in this case.