Good changes. I know quite a few judges that did not like using a walk up in senior, and there was definitely confusion. I also know it was asked in a few judges seminars also.

 

I looked at the link, and maybe did not read it all. What are the changes regarding walk-up? Going to try a senior two weeks from now and would like to know!

 

the word "should" is being replaced with the word " shall"
referring to a walk-up in SH...

 

Also requires judges to completely fill in numbers on the score sheets and not just mark as Q or NQ. And judges are now required to retain the sheets for 60 days.
It would be nice if the AKC would communicate such changes to the judges who are tasked with enforcing them. Or update their online rule books.

 

I think the second change is somewhat silly. If all the numeric scores are 7 or above, the dog will qualify. Since the actual numeric score means nothing other than being at or above 7 or below 7, it's silly to do the math. As a matter of principle, I'll do the math but it's a waste of my time.

 

This may be foretelling another change to come to raise the standard......

 

why do I have to keep my judges sheets for 60 days I can see where this is going
and not real thrilled about that and yes in this day and age of email and other type of communication they should send out to all judges
the changes
David Jansma

 

When the game started we had to send in the judges sheets....Steve S

 

Are they setting up tests and testing retrievers or are they required to be bookkeepers?

 

You should be able to clearly to explain to a handler why they were dropped and Q or NQ doesn't really work.

 

why keep them when the rule book states judges decision is final and the owner and the handler are the only ones who can see the score sheet
section 23 paragraph 2

 

You should keep the score sheets in case there is a protest by a handler after the fact. I have seen handlers protesting the decision to the AKC after the fact. If you have your score sheet and can prove that the numbers don't work out, the AKC will stand behind you. In one case I chaired an event where a handler sent us a video of what they considered passing work. The judges both had their score sheets and were able to explain why the trainability score didn't reach a qualifying score. We hope that no one ever waits until after an event to question the judges' decision, but it does happen.

 

There is nothing in the HT regs - currently - that provides for a "protest" against a judge's decision. If you "saw" handlers protesting a decision to the AKC I'd be interested in what the response was. At the end of the day, it's a matter of opinion as to what was, or was not, passing work.

 

well...there may be more to come in the future...http://www.akc.org/events/titles.cfm?v_page_titles=2

http://images.akc.org/pdf/events/hunting_tests/spaniels/SHT_Advanced_Titles_Intro.pdf

JHA Junior Hunter Advanced
An advanced title is earned when a dog passes an additional 5 times with an average qualifying score of 8.0 or higher after earning its JH.
[ Hunting Test ]


MHA Master Hunter Advanced
An advanced title is earned when a dog passes an additional 5 times with an average qualifying score of 8.0 or higher after earning its MH.
[ Hunting Test ]

SHA Senior Hunter Advanced
An advanced title is earned when a dog passes an additional 5 times with an average qualifying score of 8.0 or higher after earning its SH.
[ Hunting Test ]

 

well...there may be more to come in the future...http://www.akc.org/events/titles.cfm?v_page_titles=2

The "advanced" titles are for spaniels who pass 5 additional tests with an average score of 8 or better, but can't step up to the next level. I have no experience with spaniel HTs so can't comment on the merits of adding such intermediate titles, but it's consistent with the AKC's propensity for ''title creep." I would not want to see the retriever hunt test program burdened with them.
But while we're at it, how about a "not-so advanced" title for dogs that earn 7.5? A JHNSA adds lots of letters. Or even better, a title for those who can't quite make a passing grade? Something like a JHABNYQ - Junior Hunter Almost But Not Yet Qualified." Heck, you could award that to any dog after they enter their first test! Think of all the $20 certificates you could sell!
Sheesh

 

Good Dogs, I know exactly what the "Advanced" titles are for...to keep people playing that can't move up (could be a good thing for a "newbie"), I also see it as a revenue generator. And another headache for the judges. I don't mind the "extra" for the kids. Would I do it for my old dog that is/was rock solid on triples/quads at home training (solo training, was not exposed to large groups as a young dog) and out hunting, but breaks on water, and possibly flyers at the hunt tests...no...not worth the extra $$ to me...she'll just keep her JH title...unless IF the kids worked with her and wanted to run her, but as of right now she's in semi-retirement...hunting dog only status...

 

the golden gallery will love the advanced jr and sr titles. I doubt this will happen simply because of the crazy additional work involved. For the advanced master they would not only have to keep track of passes, but points. Hunt test judges and secretaries are not paid and I don't think any club is going to want to jump on this tran and add work to volunteers who are already over worked.

 

This "advanced" title might just be the AKC's most blatant display of avarice yet! If you can't or won't attempt to move up a level you need to find another hobby where skill (canine or human) is not required. Go play Bingo! Even child handlers can step up a level as they grow. You say it will "keep them in the game"? They are not IN the game if not training to improve. This from someone who has gotten her tail whipped many times, but keeps plugging along.

 

Just another money generator if you ask me. JMHO.

 

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner
sr-ukc/jr-akc are money makers and increase litter registrations, doesn't errybody want an AJR x ASR breeding?

 

Are they limited to people with Goldens?

 

i said a disproportionate number are older women with goldens, so no not limited to goldens nor is it a knock on goldens. It is the handlers. In this case they just seem to prefer goldens.

 

Let's see:
"keep people playing that can not or will not move up"
"generate more money for AKC"
"add more letters".

Maybe valid criticisms for a JHA and SHA but don't we already have the equilivant to their proposed MHA title? It is called a Master National Hunter.

Tim

 

Maybe valid criticisms for a JHA and SHA but don't we already have the equilivant to their proposed MHA title? It is called a Master National Hunter.

Tim

Ahhhhhh, the MN. They do need to do something about the number of dogs that qualify......

 

It has already happened in the obedience ring. Not ready for a CD in the novice class then how about a BN (beginning novice). Not ready for the open class then how about a GN (graduate novice), and the list goes on. Although I am an older women with a golden who aspires to put titles on my dogs in multiple venues. I refuse to show in these "optional titling" classes for anything other than ring experience for my dog. IMO optional titles don't mean a thing.

 

If I look down and see "7's" or better everywhere, why on earth do I need to sit there and do the math?

 

i do not think they mean you have to really mark down your total if you know the dog will average over 7, but some judges just do not put a score on their sheet but just mark pass or fail. Guess they think they are judging HRC. But Mark you are right, why bring out the calculator for ones you know will make the score.
A far a keeping them for 60 days, no big deal. I did have a case the a dog passed, got the ribbon but AKC did not have the pass. For some reason the book that got sent to AKC did not have his pass but the HTS's book did. Handler called me and asked if I could check my sheet and send a note to AKC to correct it.

 

Your right about checking the HTS books but when they do 4 books and you check out at least 2 of them you expect the others to be the same. I have learned to actually help the HTS mark 2 of the books while they mark the others and have my co judges all numbers than go back and I call and co judges looks at book along with hts.

 

Cory I swear- that bait works EVERY time!!!

Even better than that choke chain floater that turd /paul floats out daily.

Fish on regards

Bubba

 

Choke chain question is a proven winner. Just like Golden questions and those glorious Chessie's smells comments.

/Paul

 

well lets see first you ticked off the golden people, now the senior citizens and obedience people mite wana take a break now. LMAO

 

/Paul's choke chain joke doesn't insult anyone.

Condescending, disrespectful remarks about women are just plain tacky.

 

Speaking of golden girls where has Pals been?

i heard a rumor that she gave the retriever game and is now only doing JRT's something about tracking or chasing muskrats.

 

Oh yes Pals, you have to be nutty as a fruit cake to have Goldens and JRT's. Poor Bart.

 

I hear her young golden is going to someone in GA. I guess she is a big time JRT breeder now and doesn't have time for the retriever types

 

............But while we're at it, how about a "not-so advanced" title for dogs that earn 7.5? A JHNSA adds lots of letters. Or even better, a title for those who can't quite make a passing grade? Something like a JHABNYQ - Junior Hunter Almost But Not Yet Qualified."

.......

What a howl!!! This is one of the best posts I have read on here in a good long while

john

 

Is this the precursor to finding the "top dog" who is trying to obtain enough passes/highest score to qualify for the MN?

 

I can tell you this much, it's the precursor to me not judging AKC HT's if they do.......

 

I don't think an advanced title is a precursor. It is already used for other breeds. It only makes sense it is applied to all AKC field events. Pointers just started it this year if I recall correctly. They don't have a MN and many owners pushed for an adanced MH. I'm told an ES ive shot over was the first advanced MH. His owner is proud. He likes the games and there is t anywhere else to go but FT. Hes been in a walking trial or two but they aren't common. From their standpoint it gives them a little higher goal to chase.

The fact it requires higher passing scores already I've seen complaining about judges and the pointer folks hissing under their breath about low scores and then, there are the "favors". It's a set up for failure and continued downfall of the hunt test organization.