[Ted Shih]

Ted, I,m curious. Of the 9 dogs that ran this did they all try to pick up the birds in the same order? Or did some select a different order after watching some run?? You had 3 dogs try. Did you have the same strategy for your 3rd dog as you did on the 1sr attempt??

Thanks for posting looks like a great set up.

Randy

All the dogs that I saw before I went to the Derby tried to pick up birds in same order: Flyer, middle, right.

The first dog to run - the winner - went right of goose nest when she beached, then streaked to the bird
The second dog - my 9.5 year old FC, beached right of the goose nest, and got lost. Handle
The third dog picked up on flyer
The fourth dog - my 2 year old baby, beached left of the goose nest, but started hunting the second terrace. I let her hunt too long. If I had stopped her immediately, I think I could have cast her to the bird. But, she got in hunt mode, and I could not handle her pickup
The fifth dog - a 9 year old FC went over the middle of the island - came up looking like he was going to smoke the bird. Broke down on second terrace. Handle
The sixth dog - my 7 year old AFC beached to the right of the goosenest, but came out streaking to the bird. Did not bust over the second terrace. Started hunting. Handle

Then I left for the derby

I thought that the right hand bird was a great bird. At some point, the dogs have to know where they are going. Mine did not. There is always next weekend.

 

[FOM]

There is always next weekend.

Thank God!

Couldn't find the flier in the 1st series regards,

FOM

 

[Charles C.]

Good looking test. My qual dog is over-watery and might try to swim around the points or channel down the shoreline after re-entering the water on the long retired.

 

[Travis Schneider]

Thanks for sharing, I really appreciate threads like this.

 

[John Montenieri]

I thought the judges did a nice job from start to finish. I went out on the water blind which was very difficult but not tricky. Long shore line blind, eventually over a point (Which my dog decided to hunt). Nothing tricky, everything was straight up in front of you, and NO GIMMES that is for sure. I enjoyed the tests even though I didn't finish. Kudos to those that did.

 

[Steve Shaver]

Thank God!

Couldn't find the flier in the 1st series regards,

FOM

Thanks for sharing that Lainee. I had the exact same weekend here. Now I dont feel quite as bad.

 

[Dan Wegner]

None really, but they do show talent and ability far beyond what any dog will need in a hunting situation. To a dog that can do this type of set up any hunting situation would be as easy as a 2 year old kid eating his Cheerios. Any situation a dog may encounter when hunting is here x 10.
It shows marking to the max, good for hunting. It shows perserverance to dig out a tough to find bird to the max, good for hunting. It shows trainability to work as a team with the handler to the max, good for hunting.
So although it does not actually simulate a real life hunting situation it does simulate everything a good hunting retriever needs and then some

Excellent response. The way I describe trials to those who don't understand them is to tell them that trials are not about hunting, but rather are Extreme Retrieving, at it's best. Just like any sport that has a faction that takes things to the extreme. Every skill that is used in hunting is magnified times 10 and showcased. Many people ski, but only a few get into ski jumping. Many people drive cars, but only a select few are good enough to drive in NASCAR. Field trials are all about seeing just how well a dog and handler can perform on extreme set-ups.

 

[deadriver]

None really, but they do show talent and ability far beyond what any dog will need in a hunting situation. To a dog that can do this type of set up any hunting situation would be as easy as a 2 year old kid eating his Cheerios. Any situation a dog may encounter when hunting is here x 10.
It shows marking to the max, good for hunting. It shows perserverance to dig out a tough to find bird to the max, good for hunting. It shows trainability to work as a team with the handler to the max, good for hunting.
So although it does not actually simulate a real life hunting situation it does simulate everything a good hunting retriever needs and then some

Well said. I have had one nice derby dog that would the marks out to 300 yds strong. Funny thing is when the dog will do it, you find the situation to use it. He picked up a goose crippled down that sailed out about 350 in nodak. Ironically, that one retrieve saved me a long muddy walk and probably 20 mins of my morning, and was probably more important to real hunting than my current dogs that pick up the birds that i can get myself and still get back to the hunt..nothing wrong with the ability to mark or run a blind as far as the eye can see in any hunt. The same dog picked up quite a few birds at distance on real duck and pheasant hunts.

 

[whitefoot]

Here are the RMRC Amateur Water Marks from Sunday, courtesy of Pete Hayes and Wayne Dorband

Right bird thrown first. 335 to guns. Probably 350 to bird. Line to mark is over near point over island (blue line shows width of island), through cover, up over ridge, then over second ridge, then into draw, then push up hill. Many dogs got second on face of second ridge and would not drive up the ridge

Middle bird shot second. 225 yards. Line over left point then big swim

Flyer on right.

I had three shots - one with FC/AFC, one with AFC, and one with baby. Could not get it. But had a fun time trying
3 dogs got the birds without handle. 3 dogs handled. 3 dogs picked up

Lots of fun to run

What was the wind doing?

And, was R2 thrown on the bank or in the water?

 

[Ted Shih]

What was the wind doing?

And, was R2 thrown on the bank or in the water?

Wind variable. Sometimes L-R. Other times R-L. Other times downwind. Other times no wind. R2 on shore

 

[Jamee Strange]

My qual dog is over-watery and might try to swim around the points or channel down the shoreline after re-entering the water on the long retired.

Would this fail a dog? I have been told that a dog that stays in the water will win more than one that doesn't- if the judges set up the test to be a re-entry would they drop a dog for this?

Prepping for the Q regards,

Jamee

 

[TIM DOANE]

None really, but they do show talent and ability far beyond what any dog will need in a hunting situation. To a dog that can do this type of set up any hunting situation would be as easy as a 2 year old kid eating his Cheerios. Any situation a dog may encounter when hunting is here x 10.
It shows marking to the max, good for hunting. It shows perserverance to dig out a tough to find bird to the max, good for hunting. It shows trainability to work as a team with the handler to the max, good for hunting.
So although it does not actually simulate a real life hunting situation it does simulate everything a good hunting retriever needs and then some

This is a good explination but I would be a bit carefull to say it simulates "EVERYTHING a good hunting retriever needs"
A good gun dog needs to sit calmly while birds work and hunters are calling. The dog needs to be able to sit while bird are being shot at from his / her side. A good gun dog needs to be able to work while more birds are being killed. NO TRIAL OR HT can simulate EVERTHING needed from a good hunting retriever. It sure can develope a skill set to make a good hunting retriever once the dog gains actual hunting experience. And it sure is a lot of fun.

 

[Steve Shaver]

This is a good explination but I would be a bit carefull to say it simulates "EVERYTHING a good hunting retriever needs"
A good gun dog needs to sit calmly while birds work and hunters are calling. The dog needs to be able to sit while bird are being shot at from his / her side. A good gun dog needs to be able to work while more birds are being killed. NO TRIAL OR HT can simulate EVERTHING needed from a good hunting retriever. It sure can develope a skill set to make a good hunting retriever once the dog gains actual hunting experience. And it sure is a lot of fun.

True, just as a kid fresh out of college must learn learn to put that education to work on the streets a trained retriever will recieve further education in the swamp.It doesnt end with graduation.

 

[John Robinson]

Would this fail a dog? I have been told that a dog that stays in the water will win more than one that doesn't- if the judges set up the test to be a re-entry would they drop a dog for this?

Prepping for the Q regards,

Jamee

No it wouldn't fail the dog unless the dog got lost and couldn't find the mark. Overall, having a dog that is willing to stay in the water and do long swims gives you a leg up in field trials, but the dogs still have to know where the bird is. I have seen very watery dogs channel down to the end of a pond and get lost, where the bird was actually located two-thirds the way down the pond. Beautiful effort but not a great mark.

John

 

[Ted Shih]

No it wouldn't fail the dog unless the dog got lost and couldn't find the mark. Overall, having a dog that is willing to stay in the water and do long swims gives you a leg up in field trials, but the dogs still have to know where the bird is. I have seen very watery dogs channel down to the end of a pond and get lost, where the bird was actually located two-thirds the way down the pond. Beautiful effort but not a great mark.

John

I think that the best water marks
- Do not reward the cheate
- Do not reward the trained response (e.g. swim to the end of the channel)
-But, require a dog to take water (trained response), but not too much, and exit at just the right place

 

[Jamee Strange]

Thanks John and Ted . I kind of figured the tests are normally set up where a dog that cheats probably won't get the bird in the first place. Thanks for clearing that up for me. And Ted, thanks for posting that picture.