[DarrinGreene]

Darrin, I gave you a chance to shake it off. I was messing with ya. Now you are embarrassing yourself. I am curious as to who says NO to a dog when teaching one to hold?

Hell ya it makes me feel better to place nice. That's why I spend money to field trial dogs. And you?

Come on Mel, you know better

 

[Byron Musick]

I am curious as to who says NO to a dog when teaching one to hold?

I am not trying to be argumenative, but just for the sake of discussion, in Disk one of Lardy's Total Retriever Training disk (TRT2), at approximately 34 minutes, 40 seconds into the disk, he is teaching a dog to hold, and he specifically uses the word "No" as a correction for not holding, i.e. spitting the bumper..

So my answer to your question would be "Mike Lardy"? Does this count?

Inquiring minds need to know! I only bring this up because I once mentioned using the word "No" during teaching hold and was told it was totally the wrong thing to do, I was not sure I agreed, although still skeptical..

 

[DarrinGreene]

I am not trying to be argumenative, but just for the sake of discussion, in Disk one of Lardy's Total Retriever Training disk (TRT2), at approximately 34 minutes, 40 seconds into the disk, he is teaching a dog to hold, and he specifically uses the word "No" as a correction for not holding, i.e. spitting the bumper..

So my answer to your question would be "Mike Lardy"? Does this count?

Inquiring minds need to know! I only bring this up because I once mentioned using the word "No" during teaching hold and was told it was totally the wrong thing to do, I was not sure I agreed, although still skeptical..

Of course he says NO, he has to. If hold means "do this" then he has to have some cue that means "don't do that".

I just think it's harder for the dog to learn two things than just one, especially in light of the fact that FETCH is soon to mean "get the object in your mouth".

So why tell the dog "Get the object in your mouth (fetch)", "Keep the object in your mouth (hold)", and "don't drop or mouth the object (NO)".

Conditioned with HOLD as a warning you simply say "get the object in your mouth (fetch)" and "don't drop or mouth the object (hold)".

To me "don't drop or mouth" implies "keep the object in your mouth" so I don't see the need for redundancy.

Someone fill me in if there's something wrong with that methodology OTHER than the fact that Lardy et al teach a different method.

Think about it.. HOLD ultimately goes away so one could ask themself "why am I teaching this in the first place if I'm not going to use it later?"

I did with my last dog. He knows FETCH to mean "Get it, keep it, don't mouth, don't drop".

If you're going ot teach it though, why have it be something meaningless in the long term scheme of things?

I've observed a number of successful trainers teaching FETCH and HOLD andand HOLD has always been truly conditioned as a warning to the dog. I didn't make it up. I'm just making observations and passing them along.

I'll bet if a lot of folks think through how they teach it and how they apply it in thr field they are doing the same thing and don't even realize it.

 

[Rainmaker]

Lots of people FF and CC different ways, no one way is the right way for everyone. I just finished two dogs on "hold", didn't use "no", but they managed to learn to heel and deliver nicely while holding onto the bumper, which is pretty awesome when they put it all together and return from a mark and the switch has obviously clicked. We're into "ear pinch" sessions now, both were reaching for the bumper at the first session, without screaming, but with an obvious acknowdgment of what is being asked of them and adequate pressure via their body language. We've got a ways to go but I'm happy with their attitude and mine, because I hate doing FF and I'm trying to do it as thoroughly and patiently as I can. Can't afford a pro this year, so we're doing it, maybe slower, maybe more "girly" than you'd appreciate, but so what. I'm trying to overcome my own intro to training of years ago where I'm the big, bad bitch with the stick who has to be tougher than the guys, quit worrying about egos, and instead, building a team with pups I've raised. I use a stick, I use an e-collar, but I also have a brain and figured maybe time to start using that too.

 

[Sue Kiefer]

I FF allllllllllllllllllooooooooooooooottttttttttttt of puppies every yr.
I still "Teach" hold.
I may cuff under the chin later "IF" I'm getting bad rolling and chewing later after FF had started.
FF,CC is way too hard to do over the internet. It's simply reading the dog's body language and reacting to it.
Some never figure that out. It's easy to grind it out and hope that the dog understands . More power to you. What I do with my own personal dogs may be different than what I may try with my clients dogs. I have the responsibilty to turn out well started puppies that go on to become hopefully someone's FC/AFC.
Good Luck
Sue

 

[DarrinGreene]

Sue, you obviously have a method that has worked for you with a number of dogs so no way would say you're wrong. I would appreciate the same courtesy when alternative ideas that have sound methodology behind them are posted.

I'd love to discuss ideas and thoughts with you any time.

Thanks,

 

[jmondrage]

thanks for the input guys