It was tough to watch on the last bird of the fourth, I think I told you that as you left the line
Felt bad for you for sure. Hope you can get it cleared up, he was not giving it up that day.

Kevin

 

I know this won't help at a test but instead of trying to open his mouth with both hands blow in his ear as hard as you can,he will drop the bird. Toughest thing to fix is a problem they won't do in training. I had one I ran in a test for a friend do it but not bad enough to get dropped. The good thing was he did it at home that night and at the test the next day believe me he would give the bird quickly. Hope you get it fixed

 

Here's a couple of things to try. As you take the bird from him in training correct on sit with your collar or stick if he sticks. This indirect pressure. Also try front finishing him from time to time. This changes your routine and gets him off balance. It might help you out at the test. Another thing to try in test or trial mode is as he comes in with last bird is to act like your lining him up for another mark or fixing to run him on a blind. Heel, sit, whatever you would tell him next if there were another retrieve, drop. Its almost impossible to go directly at a problem like this. You have find a way that makes him think of something else. It may something positive like another retrieve is coming or negative like a correction on sit. Chances are it wil take both. Hope this helps. Good Luck.

 

Here's a couple of things to try...

Ive tried all of those and they will work once or twice, but he's gotten wise to my attempts.

what do you different in training that you can't or don't do in a test? if trained on a forced drop with a collar but not wearing a collar at the test, maybe its an issue of being collar wise. are your voice tones different at a test and in training? are your body movements indicative of a possible butt whippin in training, but not at a test?

Ive been very cognizant of this since this issue started, but when I forced drop I didn't use a collar or any other piece of training equipment for that matter (Wasn't a pretty site trying to force a 100lb dog...)

maybe try running him with a different handler in training and see if he presses it, or even a different handler at a test.

Only had a couple other folks run him in a test, but had the same results.


All good suggestions, please keep them coming...

 

I have the same issue, my dog counts birds. If she knows it's the last bird she'll clamp down to where nothing worked except a cuff under the chin. At the upland field trial which is a 2 bird set she gives a great release on the first but sticks on the second, last bird she's getting that day.
My suggestion is change up the number of birds you use during training, during training fold the bottom lip over her molars and squeeze down while commanding drop. Worked for one of my dogs, but the other one is tough as nail and got the upper cut.
Sorry that it happened at the test and not in training.

 

I have the same issue, my dog counts birds. If she knows it's the last bird she'll clamp down to where nothing worked except a cuff under the chin. .

I was at a test throwing birds with a grizzled vet. and there was a couple dogs that were very reluctant to return the fourth bird. His take was that trainers with a lot of dogs keep the dogs in the truck all day and fun only happens for 4 birds. The dogs know that as soon as that last bird is delivered all of the fun is over and it's back to the truck so they try to delay it as long as possible. It sounded logical to me.

 

I hope you get some potential solutions for this as Crash is too talented for this to take him out in the 4th at the Grand. To run like he ran all week, I was heartbroken for you when Jimmy told me. Sorry.......

You know what I think of Crash.

Janet

 

When dogs are sticky in Tests but not in training :

I recently heard a Pro tell a fella, that for stickiness, to NOT use a healing stick or ecollar in training (the dogs know that you don't have those in a test), but rather to get extremely "Alpha" with the dog 24/7.
Make the dog wait a full 2 minutes before releasing them to eat, 100% strict OB (using hands instead of devices), and to "alpha roll" the dog for even the slightest bobble of a bird in training. This is supposed to make the dog think that you can "alpha roll" them even at a Test. You want the dog to think that your hands are the only training device that you need.

Will this work -- I don't know, I haven't seen the dog run in a test since the owner has been doing this, but I'll get to see the dog run a Test next weekend -- we'll see how it goes.



.

 

what do you different in training that you can't or don't do in a test? if trained on a forced drop with a collar but not wearing a collar at the test, maybe its an issue of being collar wise. are your voice tones different at a test and in training? are your body movements indicative of a possible butt whippin in training, but not at a test? maybe try running him with a different handler in training and see if he presses it, or even a different handler at a test.

just some thoughts.
________
Side Effects From Nexium

 

had someone tell me that if they stick on a bird to actually get in their face and tell them..."I"m gonna bite your nose" and then do it...enough of those and if they stick in a test all you gotta do is whisper those sweet words in their ear and they'll drop.

 

You are all way more salty than I am on any training aspect, but my pro has a dog on her truck that has this problem in spades. Extreeeemly talented, highly driven dog, exceptional marker, magic on his blinds. But his sticking has made it impossible to run him at all.

The pro says this developed because the dog was at hunt tests every weekend never decompressed, and started to treat birds like they were crack cocaine.

In trying to rehabilitate him, she has him watch birds go down, gets the same marks all the other dogs get, but then gets pulled off and has to run blinds. He gets no birds at all. The point being that he has no RIGHT to a bird. He only gets to do what he's told to do.

This may be a different "disease" with a symptom similar to your dog's. But I thought my pro's perspective was interesting.

 

In trying to rehabilitate him, she has him watch birds go down, gets the same marks all the other dogs get, but then gets pulled off and has to run blinds. He gets no birds at all. The point being that he has no RIGHT to a bird. He only gets to do what he's told to do.

Has she seen any results with this? Seems like that would make him want the birds he got to pick up at a test that much more...

 

have you got western with him? results?
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Marijuana vaporizer

 

Do you leave the bird in his mouth as you are lining him up for the next mark or blind? If not, you might want to try it. If you do, try lining him up following the last bird as if there is another blind to be retrieve. I find nothing makes my dogs more wiling to give up a bird than the thought of getting another one.

 

Jeff... doesn't this sort of have a finite half life? I mean, dogs are so smart, they figure out pretty quick when we are lying to them. (Not that I wouldn't do it in a heart beat if I had to... )

 

When you figure out why your dog is freezing on the bird it sometimes makes the fault easier to correct. There are 3 reason a dog freezes on a bird: first, resentment, second, nerves an of course pressure. The best possible result would be to actually cure the problem, but that rarely happens, controlling the problem is probably the best avenue to follow on an 8 year old dog. i have come to the conclusion that you never know what bizarre training technique will work--even things that are not technically sound that i never thought would work. Personally, i would go with a quick fix because of the dogs age. The probem with these so called quick fixes is that if they do not work your only other alternative is to apply maximum pressure which will either allow youi to control the problem or destroy the dog. Wish i had a more exact thchnique to share with you, but this is a really bad problem.
good luck
GG

 

In trying to find a cure, I spoke to two different police dog trainers. After all, their dogs are motivated to bite , hold and eventually release. Hard to find volunteer police officers otherwise, I should imagine.

They described highly motivated dogs who did not release well as "frustrated", and their nerves being switched on also.

Interesting.

 

I dont have an answer but this reminds me of the first trial I attended, I was watching the AM and was completely blown away with the dog work when the older gentleman sitting next to me said he needed to go get ready to run but went on to explain to me how his dog had "gotten trial wise" and had a habit of not bring the last bird back, but he was going to try and trick her and not put his white coat on that day, he could never get her to do it in training. Didnt work she nailed the first two marks with perfect delivery did a nice job on the third bird and then proceeded to go around him at the line with the last bird and head straight for the truck. At the time I had a hard time figuring out how such a highly trained dog would do that. Now I know.

 

She was talented !!!!! But man, what a show !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Luker, I feel your pain. I have a female, just turned 3 on May 14th, Recd her AKC Master Title @ 30 months and her HRCH Title @ 23 months. Working on Qualifying for the Master Nationals.

I needed two more passes to Qualify. Went to a Hunt Test @ Black Warrior on April 10th, made it thru the first series and in the second on the last Bird which is wet, she crunched every bone in the Bird, needless to say I did not pass that test.

She has ran so many Hunt Test that she is Test Wise. She started Sticking on Birds running Seasoned and Senior Tests. Apparently my Dog has figured out if I take the Bird to him, he is going to take if from me, So now in lieu of heeling to by side with the Bird, she swings around the side and gets behind me drops the bird and chews on the bird, and any command I give her, Here, Heel, Sit she looses all hearing. This only happens in a TEST. Like you, My Dog will not do this in training, Training is perfect.

I got back from dropping that Test @ Black Warrior and we started training in the back yard, I would drop a Bird out in front of her and tell her fetch and she would get it, If I dropped the Bird at her Feet and said fetch she looked at me like are you kidding and blew me off, I had an empty shotgun shell in my hand grabbed her ear and we went thru Force Fetch Again. Then Stick Fetch, No Collar just the Shotgun Shell and the Pinch. She would do it but every other command I would reinforce it. Then I made her drop on command, I would touch the bird and tell her drop. Then I would have her pick it back up. We did this for 2 solid weeks. I had another Master Test @ Magnolia Hunting Retriever Club and she did not think of dropping or sticking. We got a pass. I have another Test this weekend @ Middle Tennessee Amateur Retriever Club (Double Master) If I pass one of these Test she will be Qualified for the Master Nationals. If she gets thru both days without this mouthing Issue, I will hopefully have solved this issue.

Luker, Good luck with your dog, I hope this helps, I know you do not want to hear that you dog is not forced fetched, but I forced fetched my dog and even sent it to a Pro for 1 month to have a peace of mind that I did it correctly and I had to revist the Force Fetch Issue. Keep Me Posted

 

..., I know you do not want to hear that you dog is not forced fetched.../QUOTE]

I dont feel that FF is the problem, but at this point Im up for anything that may help. When he first started sticking I put him back on the FF table and forced him to the drop command. This seems to work anywhere other than at a test.

thanks.

 

Robert: Good luck to you and Madison in TN!

Mark

 

I have dealt with stickiness but never all out freezing. A lady gave me some advice that seemed sound. Before training or going to the line in a test throw a mark and leave it. After finishing training or the test cue the dog to "remember" and before putting the dog in the truck let them have that one last retrieve. This leaves the dog one more mark and if they freeze it is hopefully at the truck. This worked for rehabilitating one of her dogs.

A very prominent hunt test pro can be seen after every test throwing happy bumpers for his dogs. They actually come off the line as animated as they go to the line.

One more thing to try.
Mark Land

 

I breezed through this thread and may have missed it, but the handler of a sticky dog needs a bag of solutions to go to. The most successfully deployed solution that I have seen and witnessed is teaching remote drop. The new one that I learned recently is to break the behavior that proceeds the stick/freeze. The latter I learned at a seminar this year and the behavior being exhibited was "parading" the last bird. Went to the seminar in February and ran the entire Spring season with no issues, but just like a dog that has never broke before....I keep an eye out for it to happen.

 

Did not solve the Issue. I did qualify for the Master Nationals and did get a Master Pass for both days, however the dropping and sticking did show back up @ the first series on Saturday. We had some Church Sessions in between tests that put a bandaid on the situaton, but I think it will something that I will always have to visit periodically. Judges told me going into the second series that I would have to have a clean delivery, and we made it through, but it is really nerve racking when you have to be worried about mouthing issues rather than Marks and Blinds.

 

Did you ever get a resolution? I have this problem now. 4 tests in the last 10 months. Sticking on very last bird.

 

Teach remote drop.....

 

I have an almost 8 y.o. male that has developed a sticking problem. It first showed up a couple years ago when I was training for the Grand. First time he ever stuck was in the second series. I just figured it was due to the pressure. Went back to the FF table and forced drop. Ive never been able to get him to stick in training (even tried to simulate a HT with a bunch of folks), and I can run a test every now and again and we are fine, but after a series or two I can almost count on him sticking. As I said before, I figure it was a reaction to the pressure, so I altered my training a bit (liitle pressure, lots of repetition and maintaining the high standards) to try to run another Grand. We were clean going into the third series when he stuck on the diversion. I was able to get it from him after a couple of attempts and I took the blind from him while he was climbing onto the platform.

I went to train before the fourth and with no collar or correction of any type I could command "drop" and he would spit the bird on the ground every time.

On to the fourth. He does the test well and sticks on the last bird, worse than every before. I had to walk off the line and almost couldn't open his mouth with both hands to get the bird (I wish they would have let me take him back to the truck at that point, but no such luck).

Any suggestions to resolve a sticking issue???

Ive tried everything I can think of and everything pretty much anyone has Any suggestions how to resolve this?

Did you ever get a resolution? I have this problem now. 4 tests in the last 10 months. Sticking on very last bird.