I can only agree with that statement. If you want a pointing dog, get one.

Dawn

 

Years ago when pointing labs were just starting to come on the scene, i was at a Tri-Tronic's seminar put on by Jim Dobbs. I asked him what he thought about pointing labs. He hesitated and then told me that what he didn't like about the breeding for pointing labs was that labs have been bred for water fowling and as flushing dogs. He went on to say that the pointing labs point because they lack the prey drive to rush in and make the flush (now I know there are some exceptions). That sounded reasonable to me and reinforced my belief that if you want a pointing dog get a pointing dog breed. I can see where hunters could care less, but why destroy the instincts and talents that was so carefully bred into making them the great dogs that they are today?

 

Tickles me when pointing dog folks get twisted over pointing Labs, much less when retriever people do.

 

Wonder how the spaniel crowd would react to a flushing setter craze??? Jim

 

A MEN!!
wdc

 

That's what is written. LRC also states that a Labrador Retriever is not a flushing dog. There are "flushing" breeds of dogs for that purpose.
A very high percentage of the pheasants retrieved in South Dakota every year are more than just "retrieved" by Labradors.

"Head in sand" regards, Jim

 

Quotes "Originally Posted by canuckkiller View Post
English Springer Spaniels under judgement in Springer trials are disqualified if any point birds/scent.

WDC
Precisely!!!! Jim"

Pointing Labrador Retrievers under judgement in Master Pointing Retriever tests are disqualified if they locate and flush a bird.

On the other hand, here is an excerpt from Hunting Retriever Club Guides and Rules for Upland test (UH title and run by mostly Labradors).

The Upland Hunt Test will be conducted according to the rules already established in this rule book for the Finished Hunting Retriever. Plus, the
changes or additions to these rules which follow: 1. The Upland Game Test shall consist of a simulated walk-up hunt, a quartering test, and an
optional tracking test. The Upland hunting dog must be steady to wing and shot. Honoring of another dog is required. During this test the dog
will be required to locate and retrieve game, as the Judges shall direct. 2. Quartering. The dog hunts in a radius ideally 10 to 30 yards to the
front of the Handler. In all cases, a natural flush is preferred.

note: If the Labrador Retriever points (and does not flush), the test result is “fail”.

The ongoing inference is that a Labrador Retriever has become much more than a non-slip retriever. "Who let the dog loose?"

Evidently, LRC standards focus on what a Labrador looks like and a narrow range of what it should be doing while “stuck” in a society that generally
does not feel traditions established by a minority or even the majority are binding......even though well intended.

You do realize this thread topic will be meaningless in a few days, weeks or months and it will emerge again in times of boredom.

Snow on the ground, cold outside and it is my to turn to watch our Granddaughter regards, Jim (two)

 

Does anyone know if the silver ones point any better than the black ones? If so, I want one of those.

 

Doubt it,but give it some time Jim

 

Just an odd fact the Labradors in my area have a 100% pass rate at the 3 AKC Spaniel Hunt tests I have been too.while the spaniels entered have about a 30-50% pass rate....
So if you want a flushing dog get a spaniel but if you want to pass a spaniel hunt test get a Labrador?????
They won't let Labradors enter AKC pointer hunt tests.. Yet

P.S. None of the Labs entered in the Spaniel Tests were Silver or Chocolate or Charcoal or pewter or bronze

 

Just an odd fact the Labradors in my area have a 100% pass rate at the 3 AKC Spaniel Hunt tests I have been too.while the spaniels entered have about a 30-50% pass rate....
So if you want a flushing dog get a spaniel but if you want to pass a spaniel hunt test get a Labrador?????

According to the Master National Retriever Club, German shorthair pointers had a 100% Master Hunt pass rate that left that of Labs in the dust during the 2014 test season. Soooo...

 

Could well be, the report didn't say: https://www.retrieverresults.com/do...port+-+Hunting+Tests+-+July+6,+2015&utm_campaign=HT+Newsletter&utm_medium=email

Just having some fun with stats.

 

Seems strange to me that while the LRC inc. is saying that the Labrador isn't a pointing breed, they bring flushing into the discussion. Makes me think that who ever wrote that little blippet doesn't hunt and doesn't have any idea what they are talking about. Labradors are not a true pointing breed, yes some point, and some are breeding specific groups of Labradors for that trait; but they are not and will never be a pointing breed, compared to entire breeds that were specifically designed & bred for that trait above all others. However Labradors are particularly nice Upland dogs. They do hunt & retrieve upland game, they are most likely the most utilized dog for that purpose, in the states. Seems like this little blip is saying that other breeds should be used for upland hunting and the lab should only retrieve waterfowl, which is utterly ridiculous. When the ability to hunt upland is written in to the AKC standard, and yet no description of upland style either (flush nor point) for the lab is defined at all.

"the substance and soundness to hunt waterfowl or upland game for long hours under difficult conditions"

Spaniel test results for labs in our area are 5 for 5, these are the tests I'm aware of as I have ran one of the dogs. They are 2 individual dogs that were already AKC MHs, so the result are highly skewed .

 

Lab Upland Hunting Style right from AKC as submitted by parent club:https://images.akc.org/pdf/events/hunting_tests/spaniels/hunting_style/labrador_retriever.pdf

 

Ahh forgot about the Spaniel test rules. Still 1878 until 2013, for the Labrador breed club put together any description of Upland game seeking & flushing style? Which is not referenced in their standard, and only used in regard to Spaniel hunt tests? Spaniels #1 rule is all dogs must aggressively flush. Wonder what the breed club will do if AKC ever requires them to write-in on Labrador upland pointing style, with APLA gaining in popularity, and the way AKC events are become more and more inclusive that is most likely only a matter of time. Pointers-versatiles can already run retriever hunt test after all, you've got to be fair.

I'm pretty much indifferent in upland style, just think LRC inc. is moronic for a statement telling people to get another breed of dog, if they want to upland hunt. If a Lab can do it, make it look good, even keep up with breeds specifically bred-designed for the task. Let them do it, it only speaks to the versatility of the Labrador breed. Point, Pause, flush, whichever nothing wrong with it, as long as they can find birds and retrieve them..."for long hours under difficult conditions". I'll most likely stick with the breed .

 

What CAN'T you teach a good lab to do?
Point. Flush. Retrieve. Track. Hunt sheds. Dive from docks, catch a Frisbee. Find bombs, drugs, cadavers. Sense anxiety, diabetes, seizures before they happen. Lead the blind, calm the PTSD, companion the sick or elderly. Open the fridge and get a beer.
They can do anything.
Some people are going to try and profit from it.

 

Where is the like button?

 

I find it very laughable that people will go out of their way, troll or whatever the case may be to say that labs don't point. I put these people in the same category as hunters that only support the type of hunting that they do and not all types of legal hunting. Not sure where I heard it but "don't boo the home team". If it doesn't affect you why do you care? Obviously some people like the idea of having a lab that points and some don't. To each their own!

 

I'll just say this once... I could teach a lap dog, with anything resembling prey drive, to point.

 

You could teach them to stand game. I will just assume you know the difference between a dog pointing and a dog standing game.

 

Was at a pheasant club tower shoot, for the hunt up after the tower, the club owner told me to go to a certain field. It was the field that a lot of the birds landed in of course some of them wounded/dead. Told me they wanted a LAB to hunt up these dead birds. My little girl is a very good upland dog and will hunt dead birds as hard to live ones. We found 8 dead birds in a small area. She happens to be a strong flusher, and will on occasion catch one if it is a bit weak getting up. I have to watch her range, especially on running birds, I can whistle sit her and it is almost as good as a point, as she stares to the area of scent.

Got to hunt behind a couple GSP, and it was very fun to see a different style dog. They worked well as a team and such hard points, fun to watch. Good dog work is fun to watch whatever the style. To each his/her own.

 

Some 30 years ago I hunted over a black lab named Logan. He was a beautiful dog to watch the way he worked a field with such grace and style. We would stock both quail and pheasant. He knew the difference and I don't know how. His owner never taught him anything except lets go. He would come on a pheasant and lock up. If the pheasant crept he would move up ever so slowly but lock on point. Once we got close and set he would flush. If he came upon a quail covey he would lock solid until we flushed them. It was the most beatiful thing to see as he would not move a muscle until the covey was busted by a gunner. I can tell you that was not taught to Logan.

We learned to respect the dogs point and honored it so it continued that way. Having said that if we let the dogs who flush get rewarded with a bird then I'm sure the point will be diminished. If you want a lab to flush that's great but there is no need to doubt the dogs that point.

 

Many years ago, my first lab, Lady, loved to run rabbits, which was fine, because we loved to eat rabbits. Nothing like having a bunny delivered to hand!!

 

"Bumpin' dogs."