[Steve Shaver]

I guess that is where we differ. I don't want a dog to think "more water". I want them to think, go where sent.

If I send a dog for the water, they better get in. If I send them OUT OF THE WATER, they better get out.

I want a dog that runs from point A to point B without thinking of avoiding the obstacles in their path. Whether that be water obstacles or land obstacles.

In several of the Qs this year on the West Coast, a MULTITUDE of dogs have gone out on the LAND blind because they were "out of balance". They ran shoreline LAND blinds and the dogs wanted to bail to the water. Could not keep lots of the dogs OUT OF THE WATER.

I want a dog that feels comfortable to be either in or out of the water.

I do other drills that give the dog the freedom to get out of the water or IN THE WATER on marks.

Handling, go where I send you and carry the cast until told to change direction.

WRL

Personally I like this philosophy. 4th series Master test yesterday was a water triple with a blind along the shore on land. Heard more than one complaint about that blind because the dog was taught to get in the water and many of them did. If you ask me that is over teaching one concept. Why not go as sent be it land or water?

 

[steve schreiner]

There is a little know professional trainer, from Arkansas I believe, who has had a little bit of success in the HT game without doing swim-by. His name is...
Chris something...
Oh yea, Chris Akin.

Well maybe some of you have heard of him after all.

Anyway, the answer to your question is yes there are folks who don't do swim-by who have sucess in HT. The deal though is, most of us ain't Chris Akin.

Hey Dex, does Bill and Bobby do swim-by...? Steve S

 

[22899]

I think you are missing the point. The point of swim-by isn't for you to have straight returns through water, the point is to have a built-in tool in training to reinforce the more-water correction. Depending on the dog, you may find the need to use this tool many times throughout that dogs life. I have all age dogs that will sometime break for shore on a return and I use swim-by to remind them of our high water standard. I do this because it carries over to the line out on a retrieve, not because I'm worried about them cheating on a return in a hunt test or field trial.

John

I liked this response.

A dog that has a tendency to cheat the return, will have the same tendency to cheat on the way out.. THAT habit on the way out,, CAN cause trouble..

I think its good to a point where a dog sees water,, it thinks I Must get in,and stay in,, until he is directed otherwise.

With new dog of mine, I wont let her cheat the return despite what the Judges allow.

Again,, consistency and standards..

Gooser

 

[dexdoolittle]

Probably been a while since Bill did but it is in his program and Yes Bobby does the Swim By.

Hey Dex, does Bill and Bobby do swim-by...? Steve S

 

[steve schreiner]

Thanks Dex for the reply...Steve S

 

[Evan]

I liked this response.

A dog that has a tendency to cheat the return, will have the same tendency to cheat on the way out.. THAT habit on the way out,, CAN cause trouble..

Gooser

And when you see that tendency you're seeing an important part of the nature of that dog. I will affect his water work again and again. That is what water force & swim-by affect over the long haul.

More water...not less. If you can dim a dog's dry-mindedness you can more easily maintain a reliable standard of water performance. Handling on return can, and often is used to adjust how a dog negotiates his return route, and that's helpful. Coupled with well chosen applications of swim-by, it helps more.

Evan