If someone decides to train a dog solely for hunting and doesn't FF the dog, what are the things they will have to worry about and what are some tips for making sure that they can still have a well trained dog?
I have not even finished reading the thread yet but I have to disagree- I had a yellow lab that did all this with very little training- Yes he would pound into a briar patch to flush a sticky rooster or chase a hen mallard right to the middle of another briar patch- he would come out bloody and tore up but he would never give up on a bird! One of the best dam dogs that I ever owned. He did not like one of my buddies or maybe it was he did not like to hunt with my buddies dog- on a pheasant hunt he lifted his leg and pissed on his leg- funniest thing I'd ever seen...He was soft mouth but hard charging- never "forced fetched", he was all fire and desire...Maybe we need to get back to breeding labs the way they used to be bred- his mother was a daughter of an NFC that would be in the late 70's, his father was a yellow I got from a stray bitch who left a litter at the local pound. He was just taught basic obedience and we took him hunting- I did not start doing any other training until he was 6. I taught him to fetch beer out the mini-fridge and go back and close the door...Most retrievers will pick up a duck in the decoys without much difficulty on a warm calm day. Take that same un FFd dog and put a patch of briars between it and the duck, or skim ice on the pond or deep belly sucking marsh mud, or make the duck a cripple instead of graveyard dead, and there are plenty of dogs who will tell you to get it yourself.
Nothing. Absolutely nothing.If someone decides to train a dog solely for hunting and doesn't FF the dog, what are the things they will have to worry about
Decide beforehand just exactly what your aims and desires will be. Have a clear view of the sort of dog you want, and plan your training to that end. Don't "butterfly train", have a steady progression of building blocks in mind, and don't be in a rush. Train regularly with a group, and train every day if at all possible; better for you and the dog if it's in short lessons. Learn the theory and keep your cool.and what are some tips for making sure that they can still have a well trained dog?
All mine handle at distance; non is FF'd or CC'd. FF may well fit into your training program but it isn't a neccessary or vital part of training a sound retriever.as well as lay the foundation for future training should you decide to take him/her further... i.e. collar conditioning, handling training, etc.....
As above. I think you may be equating the lack of FF with "no training at all." So the answer is .. train the dog.And when I start teaching my dogs casting, I use the "fetch" command to get them moving before I introduce "over" or "back." If the dog doesn't know what "fetch" means, what do you do?
Perhaps there are; but like I said I've never had a refusal and never FF'd. You may be assured there is the odd bramble thicket round here, and patches of damp ground are said to exist on the Solway.Take that same un FFd dog and put a patch of briars between it and the duck, or skim ice on the pond or deep belly sucking marsh mud, or make the duck a cripple instead of graveyard dead, and there are plenty of dogs who will tell you to get it yourself.
To say "...it is the end all be all" misses the point, and exposes a lack of understanding of it. Force fetch is a pressure conditioning process with several significant advantages and co-benefits.I've seen too many dogs that were a joy to hunt over that aren't FF to say it is the end all be all.
Great work Rick. I am sincerely interested if you compete with your dogs if and if not, what level of trainability do you feel you've achieved with them using competitive levels as a guide?..... The country is absolutely chock-a-block with FFed dogs that aren't worth feeding, from a hunting standpoint - and it seldom appears the dogs' fault.