[MNHunter]

This might seem a silly question but I'm wondering if a guy should follow a different training regimen if intentions were purely to develop a good hunting partner and house pet?

There is a lot of good advice on this site but it seems like it is heavily geared toward field trial training. I'll be picking up our new black lab puppy in a couple weeks and am trying to get a game plan together. My goal is to turn him into a great waterfowl and pheasant hunter and also make him into a great house dog. (we might get into trialing as well but I'm not sure about that yet)

 

[John Lash]

To get the most out of your dog it's best to build a solid foundation. Doing all the steps from the bottom to the top. Those steps are the same for hunting or hunt tests or field trials.

With emphasis on doing each step well if you hope to succeed in the more difficult venues.

Many hunting dogs could get by with very little training. If they'll stay with you and retrieve birds they've seen falling and bring them back to you, that would be enough for a lot of people.

If you want more, you have to put in more.

It isn't as bad or hard as it sounds. Usually it is enjoyable for man and dog.

 

[wetdog]

I would train a dog though the "transition" phase of a training regime like Mike Lardy's TRT. I also believe Lardy suggested training through his transition phase whether you were training for hunting or hunt tests and field trials and moving to the advanced phase as needed for the level of competition you desire. After completing the transition phase you would have a dog with obedience along with a dog that could mark multiple falls and do basic handling on blind retrieves.

 

[swampcollielover]

I agree with the concept of training through the 'transition' phase, as noted above, but to start with train 'OBEDIENCE'! Without this well in place all other training is a waste of time, money, and effort. Many trainers, field and other dog trainers, have good obedience training classes or you can get one of the good DVD's on the subject...I like Bill Hillmann's, Training a Retriever Puppy, and Jackie Mertens, Sound Beginnings. You can train obedience at home, but it takes time and patients to get them 100% on these.

Basic obedience includes, but is not limited to...getting your dog to follow these basic commands in all conditions....Sit (stay until released), Down (stay until released), Heel, Give (some use Drop), Leave it (Especially good when you drop medications or run into a snake), quite (stop barking and/or making noise) and Here (come to heel now!) these are the fundamentals for not only a good hunting dog, but a good and safe pet!

Then and only then can you advance with a trainer or on your own with more advanced field training!

 

[Ahooge]

I agree with the concept of training through the 'transition' phase, as noted above, but to start with train 'OBEDIENCE'! Without this well in place all other training is a waste of time, money, and effort. Many trainers, field and other dog trainers, have good obedience training classes or you can get one of the good DVD's on the subject...I like Bill Hillmann's, Training a Retriever Puppy, and Jackie Mertens, Sound Beginnings. You can train obedience at home, but it takes time and patients to get them 100% on these.

Basic obedience includes, but is not limited to...getting your dog to follow these basic commands in all conditions....Sit (stay until released), Down (stay until released), Heel, Give (some use Drop), Leave it (Especially good when you drop medications or run into a snake), quite (stop barking and/or making noise) and Here (come to heel now!) these are the fundamentals for not only a good hunting dog, but a good and safe pet!

Then and only then can you advance with a trainer or on your own with more advanced field training!

x2

I feel the "all conditions" is going to be the hardest if you don't take the time to take your pup out and expose him/her to other people, situations or dogs. I would call it distration proofing your dog. But not till he knows the commands.

 

[Purpledawg]

Field train takes more time, smaller baby steps, laying down solid no hole(s) foundation, higher standards of how each step is met. The best at it pick and follow ONE system from beginning to end.

 

[John Lash]

Be careful with the obedience too. For sure they have to be obedient and compliant. But, they have to enjoy doing the work first and foremost.

 

[Dave Flint]

A Field Trial training regiment won’t offer anything to help develop a pheasant dog as it is strictly a “non-slip retriever” game. In fact, some of the training tends to discourage the dog from using his nose which is the primary asset for a hunting dog.

My recommendation is that you start early developing your pups confidence in his nose by dragging scent trails for him to follow & by throwing retrieves into cover. Teach him to quarter & to use the wind to find birds early in life. Like most things, the more he does it, the better he’ll be. Take him for romps in the woods while he’s still young & slow enough that when he runs into barb wire or cactus, he doesn’t injure himself & he’ll learn to be careful.

Put the e-collar on him every time you take him outside without turning it on to avoid him becoming collar wise. He’ll soon associate it w/ fun & reach his neck out to get it on. When he’s a little older you can use it (without saying a word) if he chases a deer or rabbit or tries to eat a cow pie. Walk into the thick cover with him & drop a dead bird for him to find there. If he starts to range too far from you, toss a dead bird while he’s not looking & call him in to find it. This will encourage him to hunt near you. Get him hunting confidently out in front before you formally teach “heel”.

The key to training an all-around hunting dog is balance. Most people on this forum view dog training from the perspective of the “games” they play and while those games are related to waterfowl hunting, they have evolved into an entity of their own. It’s heresy to some, but for a hunter there is such a thing as a “good enough” retriever.

In the games, a dog that needs to be handled to a mark won’t be successful but in the marsh, as long as you get the duck, the difference in "pinning the mark" & a couple of casts is negligible. On the other hand, a slight superiority in a dog’s use of his nose in a pheasant field could very well make the difference between a chance at supper & just a long walk. That’s why I suggest putting the emphasis on the upland work early & building the non-slip retrieving skills to what ever degree you want later.

 

[Granddaddy]

I always tell folks to train their dogs the same through 2 yrs old (that would mean a FT progression to me) - then tailor the training to priorities. Problem is folks want to run master stakes, hunt their dogs, run derbies & Qs, etc before a dog is 2 yrs old. So the training gets tailored to the task & it limits the dog's versatility long term. Not saying its wrong to do those things prior to age 2, just that it usually limits versatility & varied accomplishment.

 

[Mary Lynn Metras]

It is really nice to have a trained dog out hunting. One that works well, energetic & handles when you need to steer him to the duck is always a pleasure. Have not hunted a whole lot as some on here. I know from going out w/ friends how much they enjoyed hunting w/ myself & my Blackie. Lots of nice comments.

 

[Don Lietzau]

Swampcollie, could you repeat that part about "to start with train 'OBEDIENCE'!".I did not hear you.:razz:
Don and Crew

 

[MNHunter]

Some good info here, thanks to everybody so far. Any suggestions for a program to follow to make a great gun dog, both waterfowl and upland would be appreciated. Hopefully this program would also build a solid foundation for trialing and testing as well if I decide to pursue those avenues.

 

[TDMITCH]

I'm fortunate to be able to train at times with four different pros, whether it be a gun dog, hunt test or field trial dog they are all started the same way. Iv'e shot more than a few pheasants over the years and I feel the most important is a strong here and sit the rest is an acquired talent that can be helped along. (when a birdy lab gets a nose-full of a running rooster a strong whistle sit comes in mighty handy I'm too old to try and chase them only to see 10 or more birds flush 100 yards away)

 

[MNHunter]

I'm fortunate to be able to train at times with four different pros, whether it be a gun dog, hunt test or field trial dog they are all started the same way. Iv'e shot more than a few pheasants over the years and I feel the most important is a strong here and sit the rest is an acquired talent that can be helped along. (when a birdy lab gets a nose-full of a running rooster a strong whistle sit comes in mighty handy I'm too old to try and chase them only to see 10 or more birds flush 100 yards away)

I know you said your girl is a tremendous pheasant dog. Do you agree with one of the earlier posts that field trial oriented training might be detrimental to development of upland hunting ability?

 

[1tulip]

This might seem a silly question but I'm wondering if a guy should follow a different training regimen if intentions were purely to develop a good hunting partner and house pet?

There is a lot of good advice on this site but it seems like it is heavily geared toward field trial training. I'll be picking up our new black lab puppy in a couple weeks and am trying to get a game plan together. My goal is to turn him into a great waterfowl and pheasant hunter and also make him into a great house dog. (we might get into trialing as well but I'm not sure about that yet)

I don't think this is a silly question at all, but it is a fundamental one. I don't hunt. My son-in-law does. But I run HT's and I know he and I are worlds apart on what constitutes a good dog. So maybe the answer to your question begins with what your definition of a good hunting partner and house pet is. If you had to make a list of the skills you want your dog to demonstrate at the end of the day (say when he is mature, around 3-4 years and at his peak), what would make the cut? If you can do that... maybe some of us could suggest where you should start and how to proceed.

 

[BJGatley]

The skills of a hunter and the skills of a hunting dog will change through experience in the field…from novice to hard core.

It takes both above though to be successful.

 

[Cass]

Train the same. You may not have to build up to 200 yard blinds but for the most part the further you take the training, the more you will enjoy hunting with your dog. Hunt with a well trained dog and then a buddy's who has just had the bare bones when it comes to training.... the difference will motivate you to train hard.

 

[TDMITCH]

I beg to differ you need to train for 200 to 300+yard blinds. I f you don't when you need it your dog is liable to hit a wall at 100yds thinking I've never been this far from home why should I go farther?

 

[Dave Flint]

I know you said your girl is a tremendous pheasant dog. Do you agree with one of the earlier posts that field trial oriented training might be detrimental to development of upland hunting ability?

The intent of my post wasn't so much to say that Field Trial training programs are detrimental to pheasant hunting as that they don't address it at all. If you follow such a program throughout the dogs young life before introducing him to upland work, he will start well behind the curve as opposed to a dog that is introduced to upland training as a puppy.

 

[wetdog]

I know you said your girl is a tremendous pheasant dog. Do you agree with one of the earlier posts that field trial oriented training might be detrimental to development of upland hunting ability?

I disagree that following a basic program that takes a dog through obedience and marking and handling development is in any way detrimental to upland hunting ability. The only additional things to teach a retriever for upland work is quartering and sit to flush and both of these are pretty easy to do. The dog I have is a field trial titled dog and I can assure you, she is one hell of a good upland bird dog (I have killed a lot of pheasants, quail and sharp tail grouse over her). The converse though is true, if you do not develop a dogs eyes and marking ability early and hunt upland birds first, it can be detremental to them developing into a good waterfowl hunting dog.