[fredhassen]

In another thread,
Talking about why folk who disagree with him continue to view his videos Fred typed.

and this got me a thinking Fred. It was in the same thread that folk were chafing you about the logos on your hummer and stuff. Now I have both agreed and disagreed with you Fred. While you and I are both proud puppy owners hosting vids of our pups in action. And RTF without puppy video would be lost. For example I have viewed the video of the yellow lab and the girl “runnindawgz/Danielle multiple times now.
Anyway, I digress. While we are the same this sentence worries me. Even if you say is was in jest, it is a window to the soul. It is an “I wanna be a rock star” think of the Nickleback song, type of statement.
So I wonder,
How the “Greats” thought about it. How was the mindset of what the masses here generally view as “The Rock Stars” of the dog training videos when they started. I wonder if the Carr’s, Lardy’s, Farmer/Aycock’s, Rorem’s, Cleveland’s, were walking to the running line and had a epiphany? Suddenly thinking they wanted fame and fortune through making a dog training video or program to sell to the masses.
Or
Did they walk to the running line thinking, I am going to do the best I know how to do with this dog right here in front of me. To make it the best it can be. And while we are at it lets record it so others can make their dog the best they can be.

Because like the old RTF early times quote stated- “It is just dogs picking up stuff, or not” I feel it is the dogs who are the rock stars.
What do you think?



.

I agree that it is the dogs that are the rock stars, and that is why I make constant comments stating that the reviews should be about the dog, but obviously most here want to stay as far away from dog reviews and as close to 'personal' as possible. I vote for the dogs, and I vote that it should be the one reviewed. I know I'm way outnumbered, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Yes Ken, the logos on the Hummer and everything else pull them away from the dog, closer to keeping it personal.

 

[fredhassen]

I.
"An expert is someone from out of town, with a presentation and fresh set of slides."
Fred has videos.
And franchises for sale.
This is after all, the 21st century.

And trainers with National or World accomplishments in 4 different venues. I knew you wouldn't mention anything about the actual dogs that are being trained, cause as I said........It's about 'personal' to you.

 

[fredhassen]

It is interesting how video is changing the ways folks communicate. Not to long ago you needed a crew to hold the video camera and needed accessories for you while you ran or trained a dog now you can clip it on your belt or lid of your hat. Really all I have to do is point my phone push record, push another button and it is loading it to youtube. Who would have thought...

I personally would like to see more training videos from everyone in the retriever community. Imagine if Lardy would have had a hand held video and we got to learn as he did. We get to see the final result after many years and many great dogs.

Every hunt test I've been at there have been people doing video besides myself. Every sport I've seen is very familiar with video taping trials to see their mistakes, and I don't know of too many high level instructors that don't advocate it. I just typed in 'Field trial' on youtube, and stopped at page 6, and I have 22 videos per page.

When I do one though, all the reasons become 'personal'. It's all very consistent. It will evolve more into your sport, because people will become more aware of the advantages, and they won't listen to "Joe Blow won 57 National Championships and he never video'd any thing, so that proves that it's worthless." Oh, O.K........then we will all just put our video cameras away then.

 

[fredhassen]

I have never understood the board trying to self regulate in this area.

If YBS isn't complaining and Chris isn't taking further steps to regulate the guy, all you do by chastising him is cause a fuss for no reason. As a former advertiser on a board about this size with 100's of advertisers, I can tell you that if a guy came on trying to sell a competing product to mine without paying his way, I was on the phone to the board owner and action was taken.

Chris has taken some action with Fred from what I'm reading in other places and after that quite frankly it's no one elses' business.

It really falls into the "don't like it, don't read it" category.

Incidentally, I have a guy I work with from Vegas who has seen Fred's advertising so frequently he knew exactly who Fred was. He had his dog trained by someone else but there was no question as to the effect of Fred's advertising campaign.

His viral marketing effort here is just that, and needs to be treated as such.

Another personal shot. In case you don't know anything about business, businesses are not grown by the number of vans on the street. If your product sucks, and ours is THE TRAINING OF THE DOGS (but you want to stay away from that), then you don't have any vans. I don't know if you have read the papers at all, but there is a terrible economy problem right now, and you should just talk to the President and tell him "Tell everyone to advertise on their vans, and their business will grow". Sheesh. If that was the case, we wouldn't have the economy problem that we have today.

Yes, though your right, we get all our customers because of our work. Do you really think that a customer comes in here, gets his dog trained, and then says 'Honey, let's tell our friends cause they got cool vans!". That's like saying Apple has lines for their iphone even in a bad economy cause they got a cool logo. Couldn't possibly have anything at all to do with the training.....nah, that thought doesn't exist. Nice and personal, very consistent.

 

[fredhassen]

Fred-
What is your "results"? What are your accomplishments - in the Hunt Test/Field Trial venues?
(haven't read all your post - and NEVER watch any of your video's and won't until i know your results ).

Exactly my point. This is my newest venture and I'm very passionate about it.
My accomplishments here are that I just started getting out there every day, and my very young dog (15 months) passed. I'm starting over. The other stuff we've done at National and World level doesn't matter here, but I'm sure they will say it was because of the writing on the vans.

With that being said, and with me putting up videos of showing where I am and everyone knowing I ain't just doing 1 trial and going home.....I'll be out there as much as any of you. It does baffle me that no one wants to talk about the actual training they see in the dog. You want to talk about my vans, and youtube, and blah, blah, blah. Then I put another video up, and you want to talk about who knows what.

What do you need to understand? What do you care if I train my dog with a clicker, collar, cookie, choke chain, or by black magic? I ain't asking you to understand it anymore. I don't care if you understand it.

It's not like I'm gonna train your dog and you need to know this, cause I don't train other people's retrievers. It's not like you are going to go to a Sit Means Sit location and they are going to train your dog for a hunt test or field trial, cause they don't do it either. I ain't pushing you on me or them.
This is my full time passionate hobby.......understand?

I like to show how I'm progressing cause I document things in training. If you don't like it, don't watch it. I always write: THIS IS A VIDEO, so I don't have to hear that I'm popping all these big marketing surprises on you.

If you don't want to help and comment on what you see, then don't do it!
I'm not here to teach you my system, and frankly I don't care whether you know it or not. Everyone else puts up videos and your comments are simple like "Nice video", or "Looks like he missed the blind, what was the terrain like?". You don't barrage them with their life history of how they trained the dog and demand to them that they tell you everything.

Evan's got videos, Lardy's got videos, they know a lot more than I do, so go ask them how they do it. Evan answers questions, ask and seems like a nice enough fella. Your welcome to comment on some helpful tips on the video if you'd like, and if you don't want to.......fine. You don't even know me, but if you don't like my writing style, then don't read it.

Who cares if I never trained a dog in my life? It's still the same video.
I'm not a quitter gentleman and I've given this a very hard try but obviously everything is personal to you people. I am going back to just posting videos, and I DO NOT TRAIN OTHER PEOPLE'S RETRIEVERS, so I'm not answering training questions because it's too hard to do over the internet. I don't train our own friggin clients dog over the phone, nor do I give them a few paragraphs to read so they can 'get it.' It needs to be hands on and it won't be on the internet. So if you want to come and learn for nothing, I'd be more than happy to show you at my free seminar that I will have that will be hands on. You want to come......fine. You don't want to come.......fine. I'm out.

 

[fredhassen]

I don't tell anyone on discussion boards that I'm a new messiah, and the way Carr-method trainers are training compares to my ideas like a model T to a Ferrari. Etc.

.

Evan

Keep the record straight. I never told anyone on this board that I was the messiah and I never said anything about "Carr-method trainers are training compares ideas like a model T to a Ferrari. Etc.

Everyone of you claims to be a Carr/Lardy trainer but a centimeter of your dogs look like Lardy's. I would never group all of you in the same category cause you all have different abilities. Just like all of our trainers have different abilities. Some are better than others. That would be rediculous.

What I did say, and the discussion was on FF and you were advertising some videos, was that I'd make YOUR ff look like a model t next to a Ferrari. That's what I said. Anytime you want to have a seminar and take half the room, and I'll take half the room, I'll make your head spin. Your not that good with a collar dude, and everything you can do traditionally I can do. I'll even handcuff myself and won't even earpinch. I was talking about YOU. Don't go dragging everyone else into it. Now, if anyone on this board wants to take me up on a FF seminar, let them come crawling out of the woodwork. A 3 day event and I give you one day headstart to level the playing field. And I don't care how many titles or whatever you have. You are all welcome to that challenge.

I'll respond to whoever wants to take it on, with a 'Yes', and set it up.

 

[fredhassen]

As I originally thought, "its a marketing campian" to get Fred up the list for number of views and thus see his SMS advert to gain more attention to his business. I knew some how some way he was marketing SMS on "the RTF". This is proof:

FROM THE YOUTUBE LINK:
"Target your Audience"
Focus your YouTube Marketing on users who are directly within your target demographic (age, gender, location) and those who watch, comment and rate videos like your own. "


Fred and his francise owners will not discuss the inner works of his methods. That is a fact.

First part........Yeah, go ahead and do that Joe, see where it gets you. That's the most groundbreaking, earth shattering marketing strategy that I've heard, and you are surely set to take over the world. Now all you need are some videos and see how that goes. I can't believe you.

I realize that you just got out of a sit down summit with all of our trainers in the room, and came up with your conclusion. You wouldn't know 2 of them if they knocked on your door. They all have their own interpretations of what we do, just like all you guys have your own interpretations of what Lardy does. Are you really that uninformed about human beings to think I am capable of creating a clone? Do you really think that I sit them down and say "Now, this is all top secret and don't say anything to anyone". I'm sorry, but you gotta go to. see ya.

 

[fredhassen]

I don't know how to break those quotes up like you did Sharon, so I'll do it this way without misquoting anything.

Sharon writes: Much as I'm tempted (and I was, for about half a second), I'm going to pass on the FF challenge. I much prefer taking my time and doing things slowly, using a collar to reinforce rather than teach.

Fred: If you change your mind on the challenge, it will still be available. I have no problem with that. I just don't think it's fair to make blanket comparison statements if you haven't seen it done by people that do it very successfully at both ends. Is it fair for me to pick one of you people that 'claims' they are doing what Lardy does, and maybe they've been doing for a week. It's not fair for me to say "I just saw the Lardy system and it's not very impressive." I'd go hang around Lardy for awhile, and then take everything everyone else says with a grain of salt. Who have you seen that teaches with a collar?

Sharon: And I found your insults to Evan to be pretty arrogant, by the way.

Fred: Obviously, you didn't have a problem with the jab at me, but that's o.k. I thought I'd just reclarify for the record. I'm not arrogant, when I put something up like that, I'm very confident about it.

Sharon: How would you know how good someone is with a collar?

Fred: I have eyes. I just know, I watch everything. He's a good trainer, but no way does he want to get in the same arena with me and FF. Ferrari, and model T. Very confident of that, and I'll back it up. Now, before you start twisting it all around into all kinds of advanced retriever stuff, and this and that. My comment was directed at FF. Not only will it be 5 times faster at least, but it will be more thorough also. I'll throw that in as well.

Sharon: Have you stood next to him and watched? So far, you haven't shown us how good you are with it either...it's all smoke and mirrors. Just because what you do is different and relies on an e-collar doesn't make it automatically superior.

Fred: I don't need to stand next to him, I know what I know, and I see what I see. If it's all smoke and mirrors, then you take me up on it. Your welcome to make a fool out of me. You know what you know also. You've already given away your hand in that you don't teach.......you don't have a prayer. Not arrogant, just confident. Smoke and mirrors? Boy am I gonna look stupid then, aren't I?

Sharon: Your offer reminds me of the popular, famous natural horsemanship gurus who rush through colt starting in a few hours and get lots of oohs and ahhs from the uninitiated...they wow the crowd...but come Monday, somebody still has to actually train that colt. I have no doubt at all that you could have an audience in the palm of your hand...but that's not where the proof lies.

Fred: Then what's the problem? You can take a kitty up and get 20 bucks from everyone, and I'll match it. Winner take all. I don't know what to say, cause you keep taking potshots, but not backing it up. I'm the one seeing smoke and mirrors. Oh, only one other prequisite to make it official. I know you have a lot of retriever titles, so you have to take the ribbons, and place them next to the dog during your process.
After all, you can't know anything unless you have a bunch of retriever titles, so we'll have something to look back on. Who knows, the dog may look at them and could just rush to the finish line. You will need all the outside forces you can muster.

Sharon: Ain't nobody gonna do any oohing and ahhing over watching me FF a dog...it's a slow process without any showboating involved, and I have no desire to rush it.

Fred: Great, take your time. I already know that. If there was a better way, you'd be doing it. You just don't know what you don't know. I'll do my three days, and we'll video. I'll go home and wait for you to do your day, week, month, or year, you video the segments. Take your time, cause it wouldn't be a 'fair' evaluation of your program if you rushed it, and it's not someone else's 'perception' of your program. It's your program with you doing it. That's fair. Time isn't important. If you take longer and it's a better job, that's all that counts. If the dog's screaming the whole time and you don't care, well then your just limited to doing it behind closed doors. I ain't tying him up, and I'm not earpinching, and I only need a chair. Obviously, I have to get him picking it up off the ground, and if I get the luxury that you guys have in throwing away all the crap and only taking the good stuff, I'll take him wayyyyyyyyyy farther and it will be a total landslide.

Sharon: Carr/Lardy is a method...a plan, if you will, with a set of building blocks for each skill set that is a logical progression....just because someone is trying to follow that method doesn't mean they instantly turn into Rex Carr or Mike Lardy. It's the innate skill of the individual doing the training and handling that makes or breaks a method.

Fred: Yep, sounds like you know it well. Should be a much easier time for you since you know it, and I'm not going up against someone that doesn't have a clue. I believe Evan knows it as well. You can bring him too, and we can take the better of the two of you against me. No problem, whatever you want to do. I'll have him collar conditioned as well, just to make it easier on you. O.K., so now I have to collar condition, FF, and you and Evan have a bunch of retriever ribbons at the dogs feet to make it more intimidating for me. I don't have a prayer.

Sharon: How about, instead of showboating, you simply explain your method for FF? How does it work, start to finish? How is the collar used? How does it work on a dog with zero desire to retrieve/no prey drive?

Fred: I will make you one promise. After you see this, you will completely understand why it couldn't be explained, and I will point that out a long the way. I promise. You don't know what you don't know.

Sharon: I'm dead serious....I'd love to know, and if you can show me a better way, I'm all over it.

Fred: I'll come out and show you, I need a good dog that knows nothing. I can do a ****ty dog as well, but you won't have any need for that.

Sharon: I'm here, waiting....teach me.

Fred: I need three days, you pay for airfare and room. You have to show me your retrieve as well, I already know what I'm gonna kind of see, but I need to make you accountable in fairness. You've talked an awful big game for this be all end all program that you've got going on over there, so I need to see. I want a comparison in person.[/quote]

 

[fredhassen]

WOW, seriously?????? Evan, please take this guy up on this....... and put him away for good. Can that be a contingency award??? LOL You can barely get a dog through a junior hunt test, and your calling out Evan......... I have seen it all........ Good lord!

Now THAT is the first intelligent statement I've heard in a long time. Yep.