[7pntail]

]

I do not think you have moved up that much yet ;-)




.[/QUOTE]



I owe you one Ken

 

[Steve Hamel]

Different dog people want a different finished product. We are not all the same.

I trained my fist dog without the help of a pro. 2nd dog also. As I matured and learned more about the HT/FT world, I decided my dogs still needed more spit and polish for the end product I desired . Third and Fouth dogs have been trained partially by pros (winter trips) and by me the rest of the time. I also train with clubs and occasionally day train with local pros. Both of the last dogs are HRCH/MH. My current young dog is now 12 months old. She's been with a pro since October in Georgia. Hopefully, if things go right, we'll pick her up in May and have the Summer and Fall to continue her education together.

We've had snow storm after snow storm here in New England. If she were home, we'd be doing next to nothing besides obedience, and maybe a little drill work. She's getting marks, flyers, yard work and everything else a dog loves were she is.

Use a pro, don't use a pro. There is no right or wrong. It's a personal choice for you and your dog.

Steve

 

[Maxs Mom]

I think #1 is your goals and aspirations. If you want to try to have the best dog out there, a pro is probably the way to go. Or if you just do not have the time to donate but have the money, pros are not cheap. Great opportunity.

I will be self training. My goals right now are simple. Until I understand what all involves it is a great place to start. I have the opportunity to work with several training clubs, and have a local trainer for help too. I do not expect my dog to finish an FC or anything like that. I am hoping JH by the end of the hunt test season in my area.

I do think if you try by your self from the beginning with out help, it can cost you in the end. From my perspective having never played this game before. However I have shown horses, and done agility. I am a firm believer of get it right the first time, costs more to 're-train'.

 

[FOM]

You don't know, what you don't know.

That seems obvious, but it really isn't. Most people can read a few books, watch a few videos, and impress the hell out of themselves by "training" their first dog.

It's not until you see it done RIGHT, that you can start to understand all the things you have been screwing up.

Isn't that the truth?

 

[Misty Marsh]

Everyone's life is different! I have never looked down on people who use pro's becuase I have not walked a mile in thier shoes. I personally train my own and feel that becuase of it I have a much better bond with my dogs, as well as knowing thier "quirks" and strenghs/weaknesses. It also makes me a better handler and trainer becuase I need to know how to train as well as adapt training to suit the dogs and the level in which I want to play. The big reward for me is when we achieve a goal it's not shared knowing that a pro helped achieve it!

 

[jb504079]

It depends on the level of the amateur too. Now, a person who knows little or nothing about training, who desires to have a polished retriever, should definately acquire a professional's help. But, I know many amateur trainers who turn out wonderful dogs every year. Read the personal stories of many professional trainers who started out just like that one guy everyone mocks at his first Hunt Test. Training dogs is an art, but it's not an art amateurs cant learn. Someone earlier posted something very true though, amateurs can read all the books they want, train their first dog, and be pleased. But it's not until they really start learning about training when they realize that their first attempt wasn't all he thought it was. Trial and error folks....I love training my own dogs, and when I first started out, I thought I was a whole lot better than I was. But after 10 years, and 12 dogs later, I can say I'm much, much better at it now....and continuing to learn certain things about training and dogs alike.

 

[Rick_C]

When I bought Ace, I researched litters and paid, what was for me, by far the most I'd ever paid for a pup up to that point. It was soon evident that I had a nice pup and I wanted him to have a solid foundation so he spent about 5 months with the pro I had been training with. It so happens he turned 6 mos in January and with the winters here, I didn't want to fall behind at such an important time in a pups life so I sent him south for the winter.

The pro did the basics and I have done the training since with LOTS of guidance, both in person and over the phone, from the pro. Ace is the first dog I have played the games with and he got his SH title just after turning 2 last summer.

I very much enjoy the rewards of training my boy but he and I are much better today because of the time spent with a pro who was and is willing to help train both of us. Not to mention a great training partner which, I believe, is just as important.

 

[BonMallari]

For some reason I have yet to figure out , most people in today's dog training world feel that they need to have a pro trained dog,especially those that compete in the FT world, the days of the ranks of the amateur handlers being better than the pros has all but disappeared

unfortunately because of the nature of the game and the evolution and dominance of the pro , there are but a handful of amateurs that can compete and win in the Opens,and then the Amateur stake becomes a contest of pro trained amateur vs pure amateur..

Clint has used a pro to maintain and campaign dogs that he brought up to a QAA level but found that he became lonely and restless when the dogs were on the FT circuit and was unable to really fill the void created by their absence, and has opted to not use a pro even if it means less trials for the dogs..now that his oldest son has taken an interest in training dogs he has become re invigorated to where Cole does all the handling and Clint becomes the bird boy and proud father during training sessions

 

[RaeganW]

I buy dogs to train. I love competing (and more than competing, I love winning), but you spend a heck of a lot more time training than competing. Hunt tests, obedience trials, agility trials, they're all ways for me to test my ability to train dogs. Paying someone else to do the work (even though I HATE HATE HATE foundation work) is like cheating.

That said, my breed of choice is Tollers, so it's not like I'm giving up field trial dreams to train the dogs myself.

I think it does come down to what your goals are. It's an effort/reward equation, at what point is it more rewarding (for your definition of rewarding) to send the dog to a pro than the effort of training him yourself?

 

[Mary Lynn Metras]

You get that knowledge by training with a knowlegible group or training with a pro.

YES, THANKS. THE GROUPS ARE A DISTANCE FROM ME (2 HOURS AWAY). SO I TRAIN AN AWFUL LOT BY MYSELF. BUT YOU ARE CORRECT. GREAT WAY FOR A BEGINNER TO LEARN..

 

[Purpledawg]

My last dog did wonderful things in his short life of 6yrs. He was the first dog I'd purchased in 20 yrs, cause I bred my own, he was the first to go to a pro for basics, and he went back routinely to fix all the mistakes I'd made. I followed my pro advice to a tee, in the face of public opinion on how to create a master national dog, control over marking skills,

I learned foundation training is the most important thing dog needs. and the proof in our outcome:

2009-2010 He ran 7 MH tests then ran MN to qualify for his plate. He never broken in a single hunt test from Jr, to MN, his honors were flawless, I could tread needles with him on blinds. We were a fabulous team, and he was my best buddy,

My current pup we did hillmann til she was 7 mos and she was off to pro, Im eating Banquet TV dinners to so she can attend Stanford.

I know there will much more successes in our time together, cause her foundation will be much tighter than the one I could have put on her.
I love to train, its what i do for a living, training people.

 

[Dick Jennings]

Both of my dogs have had success in hunt tests and the oldest has hunted as far away as Manitoba. I've done all the training myself,....but that doesn't mean I always train alone. I have good friends that I've learned a lot from, I'm a member of club whose members have always been helpful and are a true pleasure to be around, at events (when appropriate) I've asked pros questions, and I try to once a year attend a 3 day workshop put on by a pro where I always learn something. Four years ago at a hunt test in Canada, I asked a pro a question about steadiness training and correction for non-compliance. The answer I received from the pro (Shawn Arney, thank you), was instrumental in me getting my oldest dog steady enough to pass the Grand. At the Grand, I've trained and talked with a number of pros. I would not trade those experiences with pros for anything,.....every single experience has been positive.

I have a true passion for training my dogs. It is essentially something that I think about all the time,.... AND most importantly, I always try to be a "student of the game". I read everything that I can get my hands on, including RTF (thank you to all the members). I prefer to read, but I also have a huge library of DVDs. And being a student of the game doesn't just meant reading or watching a DVD,.....it also means taking a lesson from a pro.

I do not send my dogs away to a pro, because training them is the ultimate bonding experience, especially during basic, the successes are sweet, I simply love training,....and I could not bear to be away from them. I also know that the successes will always be limited by my willingness to work hard,.....very, very hard, and by my innate ability. Therefore, I work very, very hard.

Now, I'm headed outside to do angle blinds up my dirt road with sea ducks shot in January. Can't do anything in the yard, because it is covered in 4 feet of solid white cement! Hopefully this will help two very board retrievers........

 

[Snicklefritz]

Lots of good reasons to train yourself, or use a pro.

I train myself because:

I want to take every step of the journey with my dog.

I can't afford a pro. If I could, doubt I'd change except for a particular problem I just couldn't resolve without my partners, local club, or this wonderful forum (being sincere).

Pick your reason...

Snick

 

[JustinS]

my dog is learning as I am so there is a decent sized learning curve, but she is my lil girl and wouldnt want to miss any of the moments I have been able to share with her and seeing that light click on after she understands something and knowing that I have taught something new to her.

 

[freefall319]

I train myself because:

I want to take every step of the journey with my dog.

I can't afford a pro. If I could, doubt I'd change except for a particular problem I just couldn't resolve without my partners, local club, or this wonderful forum (being sincere).

Pick your reason...

Snick

Well said. I could afford a Pro, but then I could'nt afford to hunt & that ain't gonna happen!;-)

Like some of the other's said. It all come's down to your expectations, experience, patience, dedication, time, effort & did I mention patience? But it can be done.

Niko is the first hunting dog I've ever trained and let me tell you it was worth every drop of sweat. In my eye's she is flat amazing. Still got some issues here and there but who does'nt? I was'nt out to train a MH or FC either. Though I am pretty confident in her ablility to get SH passes. I just wanted a great hunting dog and I got that and then some. I've been lucky enough to have the help of a few people here and there and this site to help guide me & I am gratefull for all of you.

 

[Russ]

As stated in several previous posts, using a pro or not depends on peoples goals, abilities, time, money and convenient availablity of training grounds. Florence and I are to the point that we want to be competitive at all age stakes but also want to be involved in the dogs training.

We have settled on a course of having the young dog work done by a very accomplished young dog professional team and then do the rest of the work ourselves after the pup is old enough to run Derby. The pro has trained hundreds of young dogs, gets the dogs to adequate grounds, even if it means being away from home for weeks or months, and gives the dogs by far more work than we could. Even if we had the inherent talent the top trainers seem to have, it is difficult to become good at it training one new dog every several year.

We have been fortunate to work with some top level pros and amateurs. We learn more every time we go out and train with the group. I love to watch the more experience trainers work on problems and build up concepts over a period of weeks.

We still get lots of satisfaction as once they are over a year or so old, we do all the work. The solid training foundation our pups receive allows us build on the foundation for more advanced work and gives us tools for correction.

We are held back by only getting full set ups two or three days per week and a couple more days of short drills but we still believe we have a shot a placements in any given weekend. We still get a tremendous amount of satisfaction watching our dogs work, no matter who has trained them.

We train with the Erwins who have done all the work themselves for several decades. We greatly respect their accomplishments, particular with the poor access to grounds in San Diego...but we do not think those that have their dog on a pro's truck should be degraded. We have compromised to be somewhere in between.

Russ

 

[Todd Caswell]

It all depends on the level you want to compete at and what your goals are, I would have to believe that with all the training materials out there most anyone that is teachable can train dog to the SH and possibly the MH level, having an AA dog is a whole different deal. I don't care who you are if you are working a full time job and just training a few times a week and on the weekends during training season, you are going to have to use a pro during the winter if nothing else,either to keep the dog sharp or to advance it to the next level and have it ready to run in the spring.

It does make me wonder when I look at the book and there are pro's running junior dogs, and there owners are sitting in the gallery.

 

[jb504079]

"It does make me wonder when I look at the book and there are pro's running junior dogs, and there owners are sitting in the gallery."

Doesn't it though? Anyone with the bare essentials in training could bring a dog to the Junior Level. However, there are many fundamental building blocks being established in younger dogs that arent necessarily tested at the Junior level. THAT is harder to recognize, and harder to establish for an amateur.

I'm all for utilizing any source I can to make me a better trainer, including clubs, amateurs (that I trust), and professionals, hunters, old timers....you name it. If it makes me a better trainer, I'm all ears. But when it comes to the actual work, I want to be the one handling my dogs.

 

[7pntail]

Well said. I could afford a Pro, but then I could'nt afford to hunt & that ain't gonna happen!;-)

Like some of the other's said. It all come's down to your expectations, experience, patience, dedication, time, effort & did I mention patience? But it can be done.

Niko is the first hunting dog I've ever trained and let me tell you it was worth every drop of sweat. In my eye's she is flat amazing. Still got some issues here and there but who does'nt? I was'nt out to train a MH or FC either. Though I am pretty confident in her ablility to get SH passes. I just wanted a great hunting dog and I got that and then some. I've been lucky enough to have the help of a few people here and there and this site to help guide me & I am gratefull for all of you.

She is amazing, I've seen her work. A true test to your hard work. She will only get better!