[Nicole]

There was a guy that sold PET ROCKS. Yes, pet rocks. I don't hate him because he found buyers and made millions of $$, I'm just jealous I wasn't smart enough to do it.

But while people were stupid enough to buy them, at least he was being honest and calling them rocks.... not turtles. That's the difference here.

 

[gdluck]

I understand your view but there is no difference. The breeders are saying they are purebred Labs and the AKC and LRC are allowing them to be registered as such. Therefore the AKC and LRC are aknowledging they are purebred. I don't like it any more than you but the failure is with them not the breeders.

 

[Nicole]

but the failure is with them not the breeders.

The breeders are the ones breeding FOR a color that doesn't exist in this breed and then falsifying the papers (by both registering them as chocolate and really registering them period), they very much share the fault. As well as the ignorant public who gets all starry eyed wanting something "different" or "rare", and not doing the proper breed research ahead of time.

 

[Glenda Brown]

Read Fran's comments on the LRC web site again. The LRC does not, repeat, does not recognize what is advertised as a "silver lab". The AKC did drop the ball on this. If you register it as a "chocolate" yet advertise and sell it as a "silver"---says something right there re the breeders. As to the color being recognized or accepted by the LRC in the relatively near future, make it a big bet! There are three colors: black, yellow, and chocolate.

Glenda

 

[jb504079]

Ok, so if a silver lab is the result of a cross breeding of a lab and a Weimar, how can one make an argument for the pups being "pure bred" again???

I agree, the AKC dropped the ball on this one.

 

[copterdoc]

There's lots of breeds that carry the dilution gene. It didn't have to be a Weim outcross.

And, it doesn't matter what breed it was.
What matters, is that Labs are not supposed to carry the dilution gene.

They aren't supposed to have tan points, ticking, brindling, or polka dots either.

 

[jb504079]

There's lots of breeds that carry the dilution gene. It didn't have to be a Weim.

And, it doesn't matter what breed it was.
What matters, is that Labs are not supposed to carry the dilution gene.

They aren't supposed to have tan points, ticking, brindling, or polka dots either.

Precisely....so these "breeders" of silver labs, they're selling pups and taking deposits before the pups are even born. They seem pretty certain the dilution gene will manifest in the upcoming litter....seems a little strange to me.

 

[JustinS]

What matters, is that Labs are not supposed to carry the dilution gene.
They aren't supposed to have tan points, ticking, brindling, or polka dots either.

AMEN! my luck my next litter will have all of them

 

[copterdoc]

Precisely....so these "breeders" of silver labs, they're selling pups and taking deposits before the pups are even born. They seem pretty certain the dilution gene will manifest in the upcoming litter....seems a little strange to me.

They know that two dogs affected with dilution, will produce 100% dilute pups.

They could do the same thing, with tan points.
But, there's no money to be made in AKC registered Labs with tan points.

 

[Swack]

If you enjoy the person, don't criticize the dog. Most people who love a dog love it in spite of someone's expert opinion, not because of it.

Lord knows it's true for me. I could rattle off a million faults, some that I even agree with. Dog people are pretty darn critical, and everyone's an expert.

i have decided to spend less time criticizing other dogs, less time defending mine, and more time on world peace.

Silver Lab? That's nice. Dorkie-poo? Sounds interesting.

That attitude may cause you less stress in the short run, but not standing for principles will cost you big time in the long run.

Can you say "Universal Health Care sounds nice." or " We can't all have a job." or "Sure you can have my guns."

All it takes for Evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing!

As a Lab breeder I say Silver Labs are the product of evil and not to be tolerated let alone condoned.

Swack

 

[Nicole]

There's lots of breeds that carry the dilution gene. It didn't have to be a Weim outcross.

It didn't HAVE to be, but again if you just look at the type of the dogs, it's pretty obvious. Especially the "original" silver lines that they are all heavily inbred on.

They aren't supposed to have tan points, ticking, brindling, or polka dots either.

The "cause" of tan points and brindling are documented in our breed and while they can pop up, a responsible breeder will avoid producing them. Dilute is not documented in the breeds origins and silver breeders at first believed it magically appeared and will now argue it's been there all along, but us plain colored folks have been hiding it. I can't help you with polka dots

 

[BAYDOG]

I feel bad for the Labs, with popularity, comes recklessness. I hope you are not going to have to watch , as did the Irish Setter folks, the downfall of a great breed due to breeding for color and total disregard of huntablity. And I know, "we will never let that happen " will ring out, as I am sure it did with them.

 

[Ironman]

There have been many topics about Silver Labradors that the OP might search for here on RTF. This was one of the more in depth ones that might give the OP more background. http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?39324-quot-Silver-quot-lab-volunteers

There is a rebuttal to Fran Smith's LRC article that some might be interested in if they are open minded enough to hear out both sides of this debate. http://www.labradorcouncil.com/lrc-position.html
Other insightful positions on that site as well that don't quite fit the rabid, uneducated, puppy mill, hillbilly mentality that so many naysayers attribute to all those who are supportive of these Labradors. There are even comments there about the importance of retrieving instinct, maintaining a working retriever, and health testing. Sentiment that people here would also stand for.
It appears that there are more and more who are working to produce trainable, well-rounded, healthy Labradors. I'm not saying that all "silver" Lab breeders are doing right by their dogs, heaven knows many are still just breeding the color for the money and hardly know the head from the tail of a dog. Yet, I suppose that would be true for the majority of back yard "breeders," regardless of what color their Labs might be.

 

[Sharon Potter]

There are three colors of Labradors. Black, Yellow, and Chocolate.

If the AKC says the gray color is considered chocolate, then why do all the gray Lab folks keep fighting...why not just call them chocolate? Why insist on a special color name all their own? I don't see the folks with "fox red" yellows trying to claim they are a separate color from yellow?

 

[luvalab]

That attitude may cause you less stress in the short run, but not standing for principles will cost you big time in the long run.

Can you say "Universal Health Care sounds nice." or " We can't all have a job." or "Sure you can have my guns."

All it takes for Evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing!

As a Lab breeder I say Silver Labs are the product of evil and not to be tolerated let alone condoned.

Swack

As a human being, I say dogs are here to serve the pleasures of man. What brings me pleasure may not bring someone else pleasure. When someone I like takes pleasure in their polka-dotted malti-schit-a-poo, I am happy for that person, and leave them alone, even though I think it's kind of stupid. If they ask me what I think, I use my best judgment as to how I want our human relationship to continue--with the foreknowledge that everyone who loves a dog, loves it in spite of (not because of) my opinion.

Other peoples' pleasures may be stupid, in my estimation, but they are still their own and they have a right to them, and I appreciate that right. Paying good money for a silver Lab is pretty stupid. But if it makes someone I like happy, I'm not going to get so worked up about it that it jeapordizes the human relationship.

Believing dogs are the repositories of all good and evil in this world is putting way too much pressure on the poor beasts.

 

[Scum Frog]

There are three colors of Labradors. Black, Yellow, and Chocolate.

If the AKC says the gray color is considered chocolate, then why do all the gray Lab folks keep fighting...why not just call them chocolate? Why insist on a special color name all their own? I don't see the folks with "fox red" yellows trying to claim they are a separate color from yellow?

two reasons:

1) $$$$
2) See #1

 

[jb504079]

As a human being, I say dogs are here to serve the pleasures of man. What brings me pleasure may not bring someone else pleasure. When someone I like takes pleasure in their polka-dotted malti-schit-a-poo, I am happy for that person, and leave them alone, even though I think it's kind of stupid. If they ask me what I think, I use my best judgment as to how I want our human relationship to continue--with the foreknowledge that everyone who loves a dog, loves it in spite of (not because of) my opinion.

Other peoples' pleasures may be stupid, in my estimation, but they are still their own and they have a right to them, and I appreciate that right. Paying good money for a silver Lab is pretty stupid. But if it makes someone I like happy, I'm not going to get so worked up about it that it jeapordizes the human relationship.

Believing dogs are the repositories of all good and evil in this world is putting way too much pressure on the poor beasts.

Good point. I'm not going to wreck a human relationship over a dog. However, I just think its wrong to capitalize on false advertising and people's ignorance, whether its a dog or a mortgage. It's just wrong. If silver's truly are legitimate, people shouldn't have to falsify registration by calling them chocolates. BUT, I don't blame these people for doing it, because ultimately, AKC is allowing, and in fact suggesting they do it this way.

 

[Grasshopper]

Looks like the silver color probably came from a Norwegian Elkhound outcrossing back in the 1940's:

http://www.labbies.com/silver.htm

 

[gdluck]

REPEAT ... They are not falsifying the registration. re read Copterdocs post #16. The AKC said to register them as chocolate.

Sharon, I don't think they are trying to get their "OWN" color, they just advertise as silvers. The "red" folk don't don't argue about yellow/red because red is an accepted shade of yellow. However they do advertise as "red" or even "white" vs yellow and will charge a premium for those dogs. even in a litter with both the standard "yellow" and the "red" the reds cost more.\

I actually just looked into a litter and one of them turned out to be red. The breeder was "taking bids" on that one. This is not a "backyard" breeding , titled sire dam and all the tests.

 

[jb504079]

REPEAT ... They are not falsifying the registration. re read Copterdocs post #16. The AKC said to register them as chocolate.

Sharon, I don't think they are trying to get their "OWN" color, they just advertise as silvers. The "red" folk don't don't argue about yellow/red because red is an accepted shade of yellow. However they do advertise as "red" or even "white" vs yellow and will charge a premium for those dogs. even in a litter with both the standard "yellow" and the "red" the reds cost more.

Yes, many people are falsifying registration purposefully. I also stated that its the AKC who is allowing, and in fact suggesting they do this. It's a huge contradiction, because AKC states that NO COAT COLORS other than black, yellow, and chocolate will be accepted for registration. They also suggest silver labs go to pet homes without registration papers in order to discourage this breed flaw.

So, it's like AKC is saying two contradictory things. It's just weird to me. Perhaps I'm just not a huge fan of diluting the breed for the sake of a fad.