[Daren Galloway]

WHY??????????
Your not going to get a bunch of major pros running these.

I don't believe it is in the spirit of an OH Q, especially with a HT for a pro to run it. HT pro's at a HT, if they want to run a Q, why don't they go run one at a FT.

 

[JoeOverby]

Something that needs to be changed....

Need a tissue snowflake?

 

[Tobias]

I heard a club told a pro they couldn't run the ohq. I thought perhaps they were adding their own rules..... not sure if the pro did or didn't... personally dont see why it matters as long as the pro owns the dog they are running.

 

[DarrinGreene]

I heard a club told a pro they couldn't run the ohq. I thought perhaps they were adding their own rules..... not sure if the pro did or didn't... personally dont see why it matters as long as the pro owns the dog they are running.

It matters because if you talk to a good pro they will tell you that a lot of trials are won with great handling. A pro handles far more dogs than the average amateur.

That said a person with 40 year in the game whose retired and has three dogs is still going to have a lot more experience and hopefully be a better handler than a newer person.

And the rules allow for it - so - suck it up butter cup.

A club may have asked a pro not to enter to save the headache and have a better entry or something - but nothing prohibits the pro from running if they own their own dog.

 

[Daren Galloway]

Need a tissue snowflake?

Nope, never run one.

 

[Hunt'EmUp]

Usually less handlers and dogs in a o/h also usually less if it's in conjunction with a hunt test vs. a FT. Haven't seen them be any easier or tough as it's mostly the same judges in all type of qualms. I believe the spirit of the O/h qual is to perhaps add a bit a equality to the # of bullets a particular handler has in their gun. Thus have never minded a pro running dogs they actually own, as most people only ever own one or two dogs.

 

[Steve Shaver]

I don't believe it is in the spirit of an OH Q, especially with a HT for a pro to run it. HT pro's at a HT, if they want to run a Q, why don't they go run one at a FT.

So what is the SPIRIT of an O/H qual? The spirit of an O/H qual is just that, owner handler.
At an O/H qual with a hunt test your not going to get a bunch of top level pros. They certainly wont bother with a hunt test qual where they cant run their AA dogs, it's a waste of time for them. What your going to get a one or two minor league pros such as myself wanting to run a qual within driving distance. I don't go run out of town much so I will run when ever given the chance. A qual is a field trial stake and a field trial is a competition. I don't go to a trial and say WAAAA there are too many good pros running the open I don't want to enter that. I have only had one dog capable of running AA stake and her career had to end way to short but I still competed and beat a lot of pros. My next up and comer just started opens this year and he has made it through the first series when a whole bunch of the pros went down in flames and these are good pros. I'm not afraid to compete with them in fact I like it. Talk about not fair, I'm just a minor league pro training gun dogs and I want to trial my own dogs and I have to run against some of the best in the country.
Again a field trial is a competition so I guess if your afraid of a little competition you shouldn't run them. It is against the spirit of a Qual period if you want to dumb down the competition.

 

[Daren Galloway]

So what is the SPIRIT of an O/H qual? The spirit of an O/H qual is just that, owner handler.
At an O/H qual with a hunt test your not going to get a bunch of top level pros. They certainly wont bother with a hunt test qual where they cant run their AA dogs, it's a waste of time for them. What your going to get a one or two minor league pros such as myself wanting to run a qual within driving distance. I don't go run out of town much so I will run when ever given the chance. A qual is a field trial stake and a field trial is a competition. I don't go to a trial and say WAAAA there are too many good pros running the open I don't want to enter that. I have only had one dog capable of running AA stake and her career had to end way to short but I still competed and beat a lot of pros. My next up and comer just started opens this year and he has made it through the first series when a whole bunch of the pros went down in flames and these are good pros. I'm not afraid to compete with them in fact I like it. Talk about not fair, I'm just a minor league pro training gun dogs and I want to trial my own dogs and I have to run against some of the best in the country.
Again a field trial is a competition so I guess if your afraid of a little competition you shouldn't run them. It is against the spirit of a Qual period if you want to dumb down the competition.

I believe the spirit of an OH Q is to get new people into the field trial game, I'm speaking specifically of those in conjunction with a HT, to give Joe amateur a taste of a FT, now enter a pro who gets paid to train dogs, trains every day, runs more dogs in a week than most amateurs will own in their lives, and that I believe is not in the spirit of an OH Q with a HT. With all the bitching everyone does of the game dying, perhaps there should be a bit more concern about ways to get people into the game.

By the way, I've never run an OH Q and am now running my dog in the Open and Am, so I'm not afraid of competition either.

 

[Wayne Nutt]

Steve, What is your definition of "major pro"?
Joe, I have never met Daren G. in person but conversed a bunch. He is young but definitely not a snowflake. A different opinion does not call for disparaging remarks but opens the door for discussion/debate.

 

[Steve Shaver]

I believe the spirit of an OH Q is to get new people into the field trial game, I'm speaking specifically of those in conjunction with a HT, to give Joe amateur a taste of a FT, now enter a pro who gets paid to train dogs, trains every day, runs more dogs in a week than most amateurs will own in their lives, and that I believe is not in the spirit of an OH Q with a HT. With all the bitching everyone does of the game dying, perhaps there should be a bit more concern about ways to get people into the game.

By the way, I've never run an OH Q and am now running my dog in the Open and Am, so I'm not afraid of competition either.

Sorry if I come off as an a$$ whole but the original post just sounds like whining to me. I have never seen an O/H qual in a regular field trial, only in conjunction of a hunt test and very few of those. Yes they are designed to attract new people to the trial game and I think it is a great idea. The HT Quals I have run tend to be somewhat easier than at a full trial and that's fine with me too but to say no pros in an O/H qual to me sucks. The major or "A" list pros will not be at a HT/Q and to answer Wayne's question to me a major pro would be a guy that makes a living at running trials and generally they don't even own a dog. The only pros you would shut out would be guys like me. Yes I am a pro but not a FT pro. I run my own dogs in trials and have run a few client dogs too but mainly I just do gun dogs. I don't want to be a FT pro. To be honest I don't know how they do it. I'm getting old and don't want to work that hard. I never even saw a trial until I was in my mid to late 40's and darn near 50 before I ever run one. Now if I would have gotten started at a young age I would be a FT pro.
An amateur running a O/H qual has nothing to fear from me unless they are not prepared to run a qual even though the dog I would run there has the capability of placing. To me if you want to play the FT game you need to be prepared for it. If you just want to dabble in the dog games stick to HT. There are many, many good amateurs out there that can give any "A" list pro a run for his money in any stake. I cant wait to retire so that I can concentrate on my own dogs. I will be a much better amateur than I am a pro when it comes to running trials. Yes we need new blood in the trial game but it is a competition and if you want to compete you need to be prepared. To shut out a pro like me with one or even two dogs in an O/H qual is ridiculous. In fact I think it is a good idea for new guys to run against a pro like me. I'm not the best out there but I have a couple good dogs and can compete so running against me just prepares a new person for the real world of field trials. I jammed my first open and I felt as if I had won the national. 11 dogs going into the 4th series and all but one other and my 2 1/2 yr old dog where FC or AFC. Talk about a rush. I watched Shaq (close to a 200 point AA dog) go down on the water blind in front of me then me and my dog got it done. Awesome feeling. Get chicken skins just flashing back on that.
Sorry if I got a little defensive. As Wayne said this is a good topic for debate/discussion and this is my view.

 

[Daren Galloway]

Sorry if I come off as an a$$ whole but the original post just sounds like whining to me. I have never seen an O/H qual in a regular field trial, only in conjunction of a hunt test and very few of those. Yes they are designed to attract new people to the trial game and I think it is a great idea. The HT Quals I have run tend to be somewhat easier than at a full trial and that's fine with me too but to say no pros in an O/H qual to me sucks. The major or "A" list pros will not be at a HT/Q and to answer Wayne's question to me a major pro would be a guy that makes a living at running trials and generally they don't even own a dog. The only pros you would shut out would be guys like me. Yes I am a pro but not a FT pro. I run my own dogs in trials and have run a few client dogs too but mainly I just do gun dogs. I don't want to be a FT pro. To be honest I don't know how they do it. I'm getting old and don't want to work that hard. I never even saw a trial until I was in my mid to late 40's and darn near 50 before I ever run one. Now if I would have gotten started at a young age I would be a FT pro.
An amateur running a O/H qual has nothing to fear from me unless they are not prepared to run a qual even though the dog I would run there has the capability of placing. To me if you want to play the FT game you need to be prepared for it. If you just want to dabble in the dog games stick to HT. There are many, many good amateurs out there that can give any "A" list pro a run for his money in any stake. I cant wait to retire so that I can concentrate on my own dogs. I will be a much better amateur than I am a pro when it comes to running trials. Yes we need new blood in the trial game but it is a competition and if you want to compete you need to be prepared. To shut out a pro like me with one or even two dogs in an O/H qual is ridiculous. In fact I think it is a good idea for new guys to run against a pro like me. I'm not the best out there but I have a couple good dogs and can compete so running against me just prepares a new person for the real world of field trials. I jammed my first open and I felt as if I had won the national. 11 dogs going into the 4th series and all but one other and my 2 1/2 yr old dog where FC or AFC. Talk about a rush. I watched Shaq (close to a 200 point AA dog) go down on the water blind in front of me then me and my dog got it done. Awesome feeling. Get chicken skins just flashing back on that.
Sorry if I got a little defensive. As Wayne said this is a good topic for debate/discussion and this is my view.

I can respect that view and admit your situation as not a full on competition based pro (HT or FT) is different and not exactly what I'm targeting.

What is your opinion of an A list HT pro that owns a couple dogs runs countless HT's a year, goes to a OH and wins it, is that in the spirit of the stake?

 

[ErinsEdge]

The HT O/H quals and the regular Quals and O/H Quals I have worked look the same to me as far as difficulty. It must be a regional issue where they are easier. I have seen only 3 handlers finish and they are judged by the same judges that judge FTs. If a pro owns the dog (and I hope it's not just a convenient co-ownership) by the rules he can enter but, I don't see him necessarily being the best. Of course these are not A pros, especially at HT. "A" pros don't run against their truck. Just train and dog to line

 

[mjh345]

Sorry if I come off as an a$$ whole

but the original post just sounds like whining to me. I have never seen an O/H qual in a regular field trial, only in conjunction of a hunt test and very few of those. Yes they are designed to attract new people to the trial game and I think it is a great idea. The HT Quals I have run tend to be somewhat easier than at a full trial and that's fine with me too but to say no pros in an O/H qual to me sucks. The major or "A" list pros will not be at a HT/Q and to answer Wayne's question to me a major pro would be a guy that makes a living at running trials and generally they don't even own a dog. The only pros you would shut out would be guys like me. Yes I am a pro but not a FT pro. I run my own dogs in trials and have run a few client dogs too but mainly I just do gun dogs. I don't want to be a FT pro. To be honest I don't know how they do it. I'm getting old and don't want to work that hard. I never even saw a trial until I was in my mid to late 40's and darn near 50 before I ever run one. Now if I would have gotten started at a young age I would be a FT pro.
An amateur running a O/H qual has nothing to fear from me unless they are not prepared to run a qual even though the dog I would run there has the capability of placing. To me if you want to play the FT game you need to be prepared for it. If you just want to dabble in the dog games stick to HT. There are many, many good amateurs out there that can give any "A" list pro a run for his money in any stake. I cant wait to retire so that I can concentrate on my own dogs. I will be a much better amateur than I am a pro when it comes to running trials. Yes we need new blood in the trial game but it is a competition and if you want to compete you need to be prepared. To shut out a pro like me with one or even two dogs in an O/H qual is ridiculous. In fact I think it is a good idea for new guys to run against a pro like me. I'm not the best out there but I have a couple good dogs and can compete so running against me just prepares a new person for the real world of field trials. I jammed my first open and I felt as if I had won the national. 11 dogs going into the 4th series and all but one other and my 2 1/2 yr old dog where FC or AFC. Talk about a rush. I watched Shaq (close to a 200 point AA dog) go down on the water blind in front of me then me and my dog got it done. Awesome feeling. Get chicken skins just flashing back on that.
Sorry if I got a little defensive. As Wayne said this is a good topic for debate/discussion and this is my view.

I can respect that view and admit your situation as not a full on competition based pro (HT or FT) is different and not exactly what I'm targeting.

What is your opinion of an A list HT pro that owns a couple dogs runs countless HT's a year, goes to a OH and wins it, is that in the spirit of the stake?

I see these 3 words "AND WINS IT" as key words in your post
What difference does that make as to your "in the spirit of the stake" issue? If he bombs out in the first series does he now meet the "spirit of the stake"?
If he actually owns the dog is the only thing that matters.
The rule book can't and shouldn't attempt to define subjective issues such as who is an A list pro "spirit of the stake" or other such nonsense

 

[Steve Shaver]

I can respect that view and admit your situation as not a full on competition based pro (HT or FT) is different and not exactly what I'm targeting.

What is your opinion of an A list HT pro that owns a couple dogs runs countless HT's a year, goes to a OH and wins it, is that in the spirit of the stake?

As for being a competitor in that trial I would have no problem with it. I think it is just as good for a HT pro to have an arena to step up to the trial world. An "A" list hunt test pro is not the same as an "A" FT pro. If the spirit of the stake is to make it easier I don't agree with it. Competition is reality and field trials are competitions. If say a guy with his Master titled dog wants to try a qual I think it is awesome but he better be prepared. What do you think it does to a new guy that tries a qual and goes out in the first series? Just sayin that a person that wants to try Field trials better be prepared to compete and also prepared for failure. I simply don't think there are enough owner handler pros to really worry about. I have never gone into any trial intimidated by any handler but just about every time I step to the line I am somewhat intimidated by the test. You need to beat the test not the competitors.

 

[Daren Galloway]

I see these 3 words "AND WINS IT" as key words in your post
What difference does that make as to your "in the spirit of the stake" issue? If he bombs out in the first series does he now meet the "spirit of the stake"?
If he actually owns the dog is the only thing that matters.
The rule book can't and shouldn't attempt to define subjective issues such as who is an A list pro "spirit of the stake" or other such nonsense

It should not define "in the spirit of the stake"? Was the rule not created for a reason? Were OH Am's not created for a reason, and maybe I'm all wet, but a pretty similar reason? Defining A list pros would be ridiculous, that's why I made the statement "no pro's". No I do not think if he bombs out in the first it meets the "spirit of the stake" I do however consider it poetic justice.

 

[mjh345]

I see these 3 words "AND WINS IT" as key words in your post
What difference does that make as to your "in the spirit of the stake" issue? If he bombs out in the first series does he now meet the "spirit of the stake"?
If he actually owns the dog is the only thing that matters.
The rule book can't and shouldn't attempt to define subjective issues such as who is an A list pro "spirit of the stake" or other such nonsense

It should not define "in the spirit of the stake"? Was the rule not created for a reason? Were OH Am's not created for a reason, and maybe I'm all wet, but a pretty similar reason? No I do not think if he bombs out in the first it meets the "spirit of the stake" I do however consider it poetic justice.

Apparently according to you the rule book shouldn't define "In the spirit of the stake":.... but you can?!?@?

O/H Am's were created for a reason, however this thread isn't dealing with that category. It is discussing an O/H qual.
Not an O/H Am Qual

 

[Daren Galloway]

Apparently according to you the rule book shouldn't define "In the spirit of the stake":.... but you can?!?@?

O/H Am's were created for a reason, however this thread isn't dealing with that category. It is discussing an O/H qual.
Not an O/H Am Qual

You must've misread, maybe you missed my "?", and you clearly missed my point.

 

[DarrinGreene]

You must've misread, maybe you missed my "?", and you clearly missed my point.

Bro - you're arguing with the rule book here - it's a waste of brain power. Won't change a thing.

 

[Peter Balzer]

Sooner Retriever Club is having a O/H Qual attached to a regular hunt test on 9/22
Tulsa Retriever Club is also having a O/H Qual attached to a regular hunt test on 9/29.

Since the subject is being brought up thought I would plug a couple of clubs were someone can come watch/participate/volunteer.

 

[vtjackson]

Am also new to this game so the following is based on observation and not published material. Thought the Owner/Handler Qualifying Event was a Field Trial Format event often held in conjunction with Hunt Tests as a way to introduce "Hunt Testers" to the world of the Field Trialer. Longer distances, ranking of performances instead of pass/fail, etc. Haven't seen enough Field Trials to know/comment of whether the distances are as long as a "regular" Field Trial but sure seemed longer than what I have seen at hunt tests. Also, seems Owner/Handler Qualifying Events do not have the "Open" and "Amateur" categories one sees at a Field Trial.