I read through some old posts about Bubba. Just curious, who saw him run? Thoughts? Also, who’s seen his pups run? Thoughts? (Feel free to message me if you don’t want to share your thoughts publicly.)
Thanks!
Thanks!
Hilltop’s Hayseed - Bubba
Kyle Garris
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Perhaps the discrepancy is different definitions of average?
I think a 70 lb male would be on the small side
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I wouldn't.I think a 70 lb male would be on the small side
Most bitches are selected for breeding based on the fact they can be.
A few are selected for breeding because of their lineage and the fact they can be.
Some very few are selected because of their lineage AND the fact they carry winning traits and characteristics and have proven it.
No surprise then that the contingency of puppy incubators which make up the majority of litters born lay blame on the stud when things go sideways.
I have a daughter now and had a son before her. Maybe just luck but they both turned out to be great dogs in the field and wonderful companions as well. Ol Cap suffered from being only trained by me, and was never force fetched, but he’d mark,on his own,more down birds in a volley than I could count, would attempt to gather the whole bunch in a pile maybe ten yards in front of the pit, then deliver to hand 2 or 3 at a time- I’m talking 7-8 birds down in a volley, and he’d go after the farthest bird first, and almost never switched( he did this naturally- no training)
He’d mark cripples down that sail, sail, sail away and then fall almost out of everyone’s vision, and protest if not allowed to make the distance. I just tried to trust there was a bird there if he said so, and to stay out of his way . Of course none of this behavior is cherished in a field trial, but his vision, intelligence ,and work ethic would certainly have translated well ,for whatever my opinion is worth He was a big dog -85 lbs in his prime. She’s about 60 lbs.
He’d mark cripples down that sail, sail, sail away and then fall almost out of everyone’s vision, and protest if not allowed to make the distance. I just tried to trust there was a bird there if he said so, and to stay out of his way . Of course none of this behavior is cherished in a field trial, but his vision, intelligence ,and work ethic would certainly have translated well ,for whatever my opinion is worth
He was a big dog -85 lbs in his prime. She’s about 60 lbs.
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First off is probably because most don’t know the bitches as well as where the puppies were placed. The placement has a ton to do with the success especially in early litters. If a stud gets a reputation early, owners of top bitches will more likely go to them.
Now, with that said, some males tend to throw nice dogs regardless of who they are bred to. Other dogs seem to throw below average dogs with multiple dames. I like to know and really like my bitch lines. 95% of the time or more, nice bitches are bred to quality studs. If I like the bitch, but not the stud or at least what he has previously thrown, I pass. Both sides contribute to the pups a lot. Too much time and money blown on this ridiculous sport for me to start behind the 8 ball.
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My post was just a little jab at breeders that will get 3+ litters out of a bitch no matter what.
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You ever seen a FC AFC bitch bred to a sub par stud? I haven’t.
So you mean FC AFC titled bitches (nice bitches) when you make that statement.
That's fair.
However I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that those breedings make up a pretty small % of Labrador Retrievers hitting the ground.
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Probably less than 1%
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The only one i can remember is FC AFC Naiki Anny bred to an untitled stud Super Powder, who was not only untitled but his hips wouldn't pass ofa and i had one of his offspring who was dysplastic as a youngster. That breeding produced Dr. Davey Phd, high point Derby dog, NFC afc Risky business Ruby, and several other very competitive dogs.
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Could be wrong but I believe Super Powder predated OFA testing for hips/elbows?
Tiger would be another stud that, on paper, might appear "sub par".
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Not true with regards to Super Powder, it was widely known that he was dysplastic. He had a nice Derby career but only one low all age placement. Tiger was different, he was high powered and carried with it some issues that arose from that. He had an Open win relatively young and other places just not enough for an FC. Pat Burns could give more detailed information on that.
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OK. Let’s expand the population. Do you know any bitches that the owner of the bitch bred to a male that they thought was subpar to their bitch? I don’t unless it is someone that owned both and bred not knowing what they were doing.
I don’t think the owners that bred to Super Powder or Tiger thought of them as subpar. Probably saw traits that in their mind were strong enough to override the negative.
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The reason for the existence of the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals was the recognition that hip dysplasia was related to genetics. Some the early and most ardent backers were prominent people from retriever field trials.
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Yes by at least a decade, NFC NAFA Super Chief had a very early OFA number and Augie Belmont was one of those involved with the formation of the OFA.
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