[Misty Marsh]

Whenever my dog's have lined a blind you hear the " but does that dog handle?" from the judges or gallery to which my reply is sure did, only took one. My opinion is that an initial send is still giving guidance, thus a handle of sorts. If the dog lines the blind it has really honed it's skill set to do it in one send.

 

[Steve Hester]

To me, the initial send on a blind is a cast. In my feeble mind, a handle is when you stop the dog to change it's direction, no matter how suttle that change may be, then cast the dog in the new direction.

 

[2tall]

To me, the initial send on a blind is a cast. In my feeble mind, a handle is when you stop the dog to change it's direction, no matter how suttle that change may be, then cast the dog in the new direction.

This just about says it for me. Someone mentioned that "handling" began at the truck. That is true too. A "handler" manages every step of the sequence from truck to honor. Managing that process is what handling is. BUT....it appears to me that "A Handle" in a test is a specific action that stops the dog from doing what he is doing, or going where he is going, and making him do or go somewhere else. In other words, sending the dog from the line on a blind is definitely "handling" but not "a handle".

This from someone who is just now realizing how much IS handling, good or bad!

 

[Mike Tome]

Anyone who questions a dog's ability to handle if it lines a blind should be sent back to retriever school... and particularly a judge who in all seriousness says s/he didn't see the dog handle. The prompt reply should be to next time set up a blind that challenges the dog so it has to be handled..... JMHO....

 

[Bill Davis]

To me, the initial send on a blind is a cast. In my feeble mind, a handle is when you stop the dog to change it's direction, no matter how suttle that change may be, then cast the dog in the new direction.

The initial line to me is a cast also. If the dog takes a bad initial line then it is marked as a cast refusal.

 

[Van Ames]

Once...............................

 

[limiman12]

I Broke The Tie!!!!!

 

[GulfCoast]

I think I unbroke it again!

 

[Steve Peacock]

If the dog lines the blind, it has not been handled, it has been cast.

Not trying to sound like a smarta**, but isn't a cast a handle? To me a handle is when the dog is cast in a direction. Therefore you are handling the dog from the initial cast.

 

[mike olson]

I thought handlers handle the whole time and I didnt know they were counting.

 

[John Robinson]

There should be a choice in the poll:

"It doesn't matter."[/QUOTE]

That's what I thought. It's semantics. I don't call it anything when I judge. All I have are lines connected by dot's which constitute a whistle stop and cast. I make no note what the cast is, only where the dog goes after the "dot". The line from the line to the first dot is the "initial line", but I don't write initial lind down on the sheet, it's right there for me to see without the need for a term. I also draw the clear cut boundries of the blind, a tree here, large shrub there, shoreline and points of a water blind, ect.

If the dots and connecting lines are proceeding away from the direct line, I presume the dog is either refusing cast, or the handler has lost his bearings and is handling away from the blind, both are bad.

Anyway, what is the difference in judging whether we call the initial send a cast or a handle? A dog that truly "lines the blind", whatever you want to call the send, has done the best job possible. I remember lining a water blind up in Canada years ago, and as the dog was returning with the bird, the gallery joking asking, "yeah, but can he handle?" Up until I read this thread I always thought they were joking, but now I don't know.

John

 

[moonstonelabs]

Johns comments describe how 99 % of FT judges view blinds...myself included.

Bill

 

[mostlygold]

This was very entertaining. I thought that now that spring had arrived, everyone would be out doing yard work or training their dogs. This looks much like those dismal winter threads where everyone was so bored and cabin crazy.

Is it still winter up there Ken??

Dawn

 

[Kenneth Niles Bora]

winter? Heck no, it's mud season!

 

[mostlygold]

That's worse than winter. Can't ski, can't snowmobile, can't ice fish, hunting season is over. No wonder your posting these crazy threads.

dawn

 

[john fallon]

Ken,the rules address this question rather clearly.
When all else fails read the rules

john

 

[Kenneth Niles Bora]

Ken,the rules address this question rather clearly.
When all else fails read the rules

john

Do you have your copy of the “unwritten” ones I could use????

.

 

[BonMallari]

I didnt read through the other 70+ responses but for those that voted and said that the dog has been handled, then by that reasoning if they put a hand down to send a dog for a mark, it has also been handled and therefore are subject to being dropped...if you really want to get into lawyer like semantics then asking the dog to heel or whistling for a return is handling, so the entire argument is silly and absurd

 

[Howard N]

if they put a hand down to send a dog for a mark, it has also been handled and therefore are subject to being dropped

Naaa, I think they'll give you that one Bon.

so the entire argument is silly and absurd

Pretty much my take on it too. :razz:

 

[john fallon]

Do you have your copy of the “unwritten” ones I could use????

.

I'll just paraphrase them for you.

It is possible but not probable to find the bird on the initial SEND........
so one will probably have to HANDLE..........

A distinction with a difference regards

john