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Luker

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I have an almost 8 y.o. male that has developed a sticking problem. It first showed up a couple years ago when I was training for the Grand. First time he ever stuck was in the second series. I just figured it was due to the pressure. Went back to the FF table and forced drop. Ive never been able to get him to stick in training (even tried to simulate a HT with a bunch of folks), and I can run a test every now and again and we are fine, but after a series or two I can almost count on him sticking. As I said before, I figure it was a reaction to the pressure, so I altered my training a bit (liitle pressure, lots of repetition and maintaining the high standards) to try to run another Grand. We were clean going into the third series when he stuck on the diversion. I was able to get it from him after a couple of attempts and I took the blind from him while he was climbing onto the platform.

I went to train before the fourth and with no collar or correction of any type I could command "drop" and he would spit the bird on the ground every time.

On to the fourth. He does the test well and sticks on the last bird, worse than every before. I had to walk off the line and almost couldn't open his mouth with both hands to get the bird (I wish they would have let me take him back to the truck at that point, but no such luck).

Any suggestions to resolve a sticking issue???

Ive tried everything I can think of and everything pretty much anyone has Any suggestions how to resolve this?
 
#3 ·
I know this won't help at a test but instead of trying to open his mouth with both hands blow in his ear as hard as you can,he will drop the bird. Toughest thing to fix is a problem they won't do in training. I had one I ran in a test for a friend do it but not bad enough to get dropped. The good thing was he did it at home that night and at the test the next day believe me he would give the bird quickly. Hope you get it fixed
 
#4 ·
Here's a couple of things to try. As you take the bird from him in training correct on sit with your collar or stick if he sticks. This indirect pressure. Also try front finishing him from time to time. This changes your routine and gets him off balance. It might help you out at the test. Another thing to try in test or trial mode is as he comes in with last bird is to act like your lining him up for another mark or fixing to run him on a blind. Heel, sit, whatever you would tell him next if there were another retrieve, drop. Its almost impossible to go directly at a problem like this. You have find a way that makes him think of something else. It may something positive like another retrieve is coming or negative like a correction on sit. Chances are it wil take both. Hope this helps. Good Luck.
 
#5 ·
I have the same issue, my dog counts birds. If she knows it's the last bird she'll clamp down to where nothing worked except a cuff under the chin. At the upland field trial which is a 2 bird set she gives a great release on the first but sticks on the second, last bird she's getting that day.
My suggestion is change up the number of birds you use during training, during training fold the bottom lip over her molars and squeeze down while commanding drop. Worked for one of my dogs, but the other one is tough as nail and got the upper cut.
Sorry that it happened at the test and not in training.
 
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#6 ·
metalone67 said:
I have the same issue, my dog counts birds. If she knows it's the last bird she'll clamp down to where nothing worked except a cuff under the chin. .
Click to expand...
I was at a test throwing birds with a grizzled vet. and there was a couple dogs that were very reluctant to return the fourth bird. His take was that trainers with a lot of dogs keep the dogs in the truck all day and fun only happens for 4 birds. The dogs know that as soon as that last bird is delivered all of the fun is over and it's back to the truck so they try to delay it as long as possible. It sounded logical to me.
 
#7 ·
MSchack said:
I was at a test throwing birds with a grizzled vet. and there was a couple dogs that were very reluctant to return the fourth bird. His take was that trainers with a lot of dogs keep the dogs in the truck all day and fun only happens for 4 birds. The dogs know that as soon as that last bird is delivered all of the fun is over and it's back to the truck so they try to delay it as long as possible. It sounded logical to me.
Click to expand...
That's why I run from 1-6 birds, keeps them off balanced. Plus hunting them actually helps also.

You don't think dogs can't count put 3 bisquits in your pocket and only give them two.
 
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#8 ·
I hope you get some potential solutions for this as Crash is too talented for this to take him out in the 4th at the Grand. To run like he ran all week, I was heartbroken for you when Jimmy told me. Sorry.......

You know what I think of Crash.

Janet
 
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#9 · (Edited)
When dogs are sticky in Tests but not in training :

I recently heard a Pro tell a fella, that for stickiness, to NOT use a healing stick or ecollar in training (the dogs know that you don't have those in a test), but rather to get extremely "Alpha" with the dog 24/7.
Make the dog wait a full 2 minutes before releasing them to eat, 100% strict OB (using hands instead of devices), and to "alpha roll" the dog for even the slightest bobble of a bird in training. This is supposed to make the dog think that you can "alpha roll" them even at a Test. You want the dog to think that your hands are the only training device that you need.

Will this work -- I don't know, I haven't seen the dog run in a test since the owner has been doing this, but I'll get to see the dog run a Test next weekend -- we'll see how it goes.



.
 
#10 · (Edited)
what do you different in training that you can't or don't do in a test? if trained on a forced drop with a collar but not wearing a collar at the test, maybe its an issue of being collar wise. are your voice tones different at a test and in training? are your body movements indicative of a possible butt whippin in training, but not at a test? maybe try running him with a different handler in training and see if he presses it, or even a different handler at a test.

just some thoughts.
________
Side Effects From Nexium
 
#11 ·
had someone tell me that if they stick on a bird to actually get in their face and tell them..."I"m gonna bite your nose" and then do it...enough of those and if they stick in a test all you gotta do is whisper those sweet words in their ear and they'll drop.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
Aaron Kelly said:
Here's a couple of things to try...
Click to expand...
Ive tried all of those and they will work once or twice, but he's gotten wise to my attempts.

precisionlabradors said:
what do you different in training that you can't or don't do in a test? if trained on a forced drop with a collar but not wearing a collar at the test, maybe its an issue of being collar wise. are your voice tones different at a test and in training? are your body movements indicative of a possible butt whippin in training, but not at a test?
Click to expand...
Ive been very cognizant of this since this issue started, but when I forced drop I didn't use a collar or any other piece of training equipment for that matter (Wasn't a pretty site trying to force a 100lb dog...)

precisionlabradors said:
maybe try running him with a different handler in training and see if he presses it, or even a different handler at a test.
Click to expand...
Only had a couple other folks run him in a test, but had the same results.


All good suggestions, please keep them coming...
 
#13 ·
Luker said:
Ive tried all of those and they will work once or twice, but he's gotten wise to my attempts.
Click to expand...
Smart aren't they!

I have a near 9 year old who was a chronic sticker and muncher on delivery on and off for years.

Treated with (1) food rewards (2) No stress training for at least 3 days before a trial. Walking baseball only.

Worked so far!!
 
#14 ·
You are all way more salty than I am on any training aspect, but my pro has a dog on her truck that has this problem in spades. Extreeeemly talented, highly driven dog, exceptional marker, magic on his blinds. But his sticking has made it impossible to run him at all.

The pro says this developed because the dog was at hunt tests every weekend never decompressed, and started to treat birds like they were crack cocaine.

In trying to rehabilitate him, she has him watch birds go down, gets the same marks all the other dogs get, but then gets pulled off and has to run blinds. He gets no birds at all. The point being that he has no RIGHT to a bird. He only gets to do what he's told to do.

This may be a different "disease" with a symptom similar to your dog's. But I thought my pro's perspective was interesting.
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
1tulip said:
In trying to rehabilitate him, she has him watch birds go down, gets the same marks all the other dogs get, but then gets pulled off and has to run blinds. He gets no birds at all. The point being that he has no RIGHT to a bird. He only gets to do what he's told to do.
Click to expand...
Has she seen any results with this? Seems like that would make him want the birds he got to pick up at a test that much more...
 
#17 ·
Luker said:
Has she seen any results with this? Seems like that would make him want the birds he got to pick up at a test that much more...
Click to expand...
Yes, this did rehabilitate him once before. But owners do what they do and he apparently fed the addiction so Chief is back to square one.

Very sad. This is a fabulous dog, all the talent and smarts and drive you could ever want. Right now... useless.
 
#18 ·
Do you leave the bird in his mouth as you are lining him up for the next mark or blind? If not, you might want to try it. If you do, try lining him up following the last bird as if there is another blind to be retrieve. I find nothing makes my dogs more wiling to give up a bird than the thought of getting another one.
 
#19 ·
When you figure out why your dog is freezing on the bird it sometimes makes the fault easier to correct. There are 3 reason a dog freezes on a bird: first, resentment, second, nerves an of course pressure. The best possible result would be to actually cure the problem, but that rarely happens, controlling the problem is probably the best avenue to follow on an 8 year old dog. i have come to the conclusion that you never know what bizarre training technique will work--even things that are not technically sound that i never thought would work. Personally, i would go with a quick fix because of the dogs age. The probem with these so called quick fixes is that if they do not work your only other alternative is to apply maximum pressure which will either allow youi to control the problem or destroy the dog. Wish i had a more exact thchnique to share with you, but this is a really bad problem.
good luck
GG
 
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#20 ·
YardleyLabs said:
Do you leave the bird in his mouth as you are lining him up for the next mark or blind? If not, you might want to try it. If you do, try lining him up following the last bird as if there is another blind to be retrieve. I find nothing makes my dogs more wiling to give up a bird than the thought of getting another one.
Click to expand...
Jeff... doesn't this sort of have a finite half life? I mean, dogs are so smart, they figure out pretty quick when we are lying to them. (Not that I wouldn't do it in a heart beat if I had to... )
 
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