[Jay Dufour]

We WILL NOT overstress students to meet human deadlines, or glaze over solidity to teach them tricks in the yard that they are not going to be able to apply in the field.

 

[jgrammer]

OK, so I am new to this. I was training obed. trial obed (and she has seen pretty much all exercises through utility) and agility with my pup starting from the day she walked in the house. We did fun bumpers and marks but nothing formal. When she turned 13 months, I finally got in touch with a pro that I had wanted to use and in early June we started weekly lessons for formal field obedience and then got into collar conditioning. Yeah, I needed to toughen up and coming from the positive, click and treat brand of training, it took some time and it is still very much a work in progress! We got through collar conditioning and I knew I wasn't experienced enough to do the ff so she went to the pro about 1.5 weeks ago. Today was my first time up to see her and I wondered what it would be like. She was heeled out, we talked with her at a sit by his side and then the lead was given to me and we proceeded with an obedience lesson. Not until that was done was there any release for petting and play. After a bit I heeled her back in and a short ff lesson was done. She is learning to work not only for the pro but for me as I am the one that wants to handle her. I don't think my seeing her today is in any way going to set her back. She is learning that the same std applies. I'll head back up next week for another lesson. Just my 2 cents or whatever. Jean

 

[Bud Bass]

I don't agree with even asking the question you want answered here. There are too many variables as I'm sure you are finding out. Breed of the dog will make a huge difference. Age, brains, temperment and style of the trainer and his philosphies on training. The one to ask is the trainer after he has a fair evaluation of your dog, then he should be able to give you a idea of what to expect. If you want more, go to another trainer. bud

 

[Richard Reese]

I don't agree with even asking the question you want answered here. bud

Bud, I thought this was an open forum. To ask a question regardless what it is, is to learn other peoples opinions. Especially those that are not pro's and pay for results. Which by the way is what I was looking for. The clients perspective.

IMO one must be willing to ask a question knowing you are going to get shot to find the information you are looking for. The answers I got were the ones I expected for the most part. Four months is way to fast. But I felt a time line in the question would get more results and it did.

But what progress is way to slow. That is the answer that did not get touched. There are always comments by people stating they think some trainers are in it for the money. As a retriever owner sending his dog off to a pro for the first time how would he/she identify the good trainer from the bad. Lets face it most bad trainers are very smooth talkers and can Bull S**t the less knowledgeable.

Richard

 

[Greg E]

Use a pro that is close to you. Go out as often as you can and watch him work your dog. Ask what the dog has learned this week. Ask to see it. If the pro has a problem with you being there, find another one. How many dogs does the trainer have? Count them and use your common sense. Who's going to train the dog? The pro or an assistant? Is the pro on the road all the time? If so, how is YOUR dog going to be trained. It may not even be let out everyday. If you take your car to a mechanic you expect it to be fixed. If I take my dog to a pro I expect them to take care of it and to train it.

 

[GONEHUNTIN']

But what progress is way to slow. That is the answer that did not get touched. There are always comments by people stating they think some trainers are in it for the money. As a retriever owner sending his dog off to a pro for the first time how would he/she identify the good trainer from the bad. Lets face it most bad trainers are very smooth talkers and can Bull S**t the less knowledgeable.

Richard

There is no progress to slow as long as the dog is being advanced to the best of it's ability. I think most did answer the question by saying "there is no time line on a dog, they're all different".

Every dog trainer is in it for the money. You have to make a living don't you?

I also think it's very easy to identify a good trainer from a bad one. Just look at the record and how his dog's act around him. Like the old saying goes, the Bull Sh@# stops, when the tailgate drops".

 

[ErinsEdge]

I always recommend referrals from other satisfied clients and watch their dogs. Go watch the trainer work before you send your dog. Watch the dogs-do they run happy with their tails up or wagging or do they look like they are scared or tentative. If they run HT go watch them there.

 

[msdaisey]

This may be waaaay politically uncorrect, but I think that the too slow often comes from 'pros' who don't know wtf they are doing, except taking the checks of clients with crappy dogs.

Anyone can buy a shiny dog truck and become a 'pro.'

Saw a guy get a JH title, and then want to train young dogs for a prominent FT pro!

 

[GONEHUNTIN']

Saw a guy get a JH title, and then want to train young dogs for a prominent FT pro!

What's wrong with doing that, as long as he is doing yard work under the pro's supervision? That is actually, the correct way to get a start as a pro.

 

[msdaisey]

Don't want to get into a pissing match, but a JH???

And suddenly you're qualified to build the foundation for a FT dog???? Yikes.

Very different standards. Most serious FTers would send back an 8 week old puppy who could not pick up Junior marks.

 

[Bruce MacPherson]

Four months, let's see. MH or QAA would be good.

 

[fishduck]

Don't want to get into a pissing match, but a JH???

And suddenly you're qualified to build the foundation for a FT dog???? Yikes.

Very different standards. Most serious FTers would send back an 8 week old puppy who could not pick up Junior marks.

You don't want to get in a p!$$ing match???????
Find me an 8 week old pup that is making 100 yard swims in light cover and I will be waiting to write a check. FT and Hunt Test dogs are judged on very different standards but that statement is an open invitation to a full fledged, all out, p!$$ing contest.

Haven't had a contest in a day or so
Mark L.

 

[GONEHUNTIN']

Don't want to get into a pissing match, but a JH???

And suddenly you're qualified to build the foundation for a FT dog???? Yikes.

Very different standards. Most serious FTers would send back an 8 week old puppy who could not pick up Junior marks.

You have to join the real world. How else would a guy get started? You're a teacher, you should know. A guy wants to learn the trade so he goes to work for a pro. That's the best way. The pro teaches him or her under close supervision. Eventually, the yard is turned over to that person while the pro works the truck. That's the way it's done.

Your next remark is so far fetched that it doesn't even deserve a reply. How far do you think an 8 week pup can see? Do you have dog's?

 

[duk4me77]

You have to join the real world. How else would a guy get started? You're a teacher, you should know. A guy wants to learn the trade so he goes to work for a pro. That's the best way. The pro teaches him or her under close supervision. Eventually, the yard is turned over to that person while the pro works the truck. That's the way it's done.

Your next remark is so far fetched that it doesn't even deserve a reply. How far do you think an 8 week pup can see? Do you have dog's?

THis is the exact reason I work on blinds with my 2 wk old pups. WTH do they need those eyes open for anyway.:razz:

 

[etfremd]

It is my opinion that in four months a gun dog should have completed Basic Obedience, collar conditioning, force fetching thru force to pile, the single T, swim by's and steady to shot. He/she should also be marking at the AKC Junior level on live and dead birds.

I would like to hear your opinions of what a pro should be expected to accomplish in four months of training and is there a magical time frame you should wait to visit your retriever.

You should visit your pup every weekend- bring cookies for the pro- throw birds, help out in any way you can and run your dog to demonstrate the latest progress...The best training will always be accomplish with you in the picture- do this as often as possible and give a helping hand to the pro- they should welcome your visit.

Your time frame is WAY TOO QUICK! You don't want to put this expectation on the pro either! I would say 6-8 months- it really depends on the dog- some dogs may be 4 months but those are the exception. If your dog does not have the talent then it may take longer...I would say 12 months is too long- if you are there every weekend then you will understand what talent your dog has after a month or two with the pro and the pro should be able to tell you.

I spent 10 weeks just on basic obedience with an obedience pro. I met with the pro once a week for 10 weeks and I worked the dog during the week on the weekly concepts. That is 2.5 months right there. Of course I did other retrieving work but most was focused on obedience since this is the foundation.

 

[msdaisey]

No - I don't have dogs.

Never trained or watched dogs training. Much less seen a FT.

 

[Joe S.]

This may be waaaay politically uncorrect, but I think that the too slow often comes from 'pros' who don't know wtf they are doing, except taking the checks of clients with crappy dogs.

Sandy, baby, darling, you KNOW I love you but damn, girl, OUCH...

Your Politically Uncorrect Assessment Was Politically Uncorrect Regards,

Joe S.

 

[Jacob Hawkes]

You don't want to get in a p!$$ing match???????
Find me an 8 week old pup that is making 100 yard swims in light cover and I will be waiting to write a check. FT and Hunt Test dogs are judged on very different standards but that statement is an open invitation to a full fledged, all out, p!$$ing contest.

Haven't had a contest in a day or so
Mark L.

lol No doubt. That would be hella news to get this week. He is doing that in a lil over a week?

 

[Pheasanttomeetyou]

What's wrong with doing that, as long as he is doing yard work under the pro's supervision? That is actually, the correct way to get a start as a pro.

Most pros sit run their higher level dogs while their "apprentices" Force Fetch the puppies unsupervised. Then the pups owners wonder why their promising pups come back home with serious problems and deficiencies.

A decent Pro will not accept a pup until it is at least 6 months old. It is important that you know who will be doing the FF. And ... remember that many Pros will lie. They will assure you that they will do the FF, so it is important to know who works for them. It is improtant to know about their reputation. It is important for you to be very familiar with their training methods and philosophy. As Ronald Reagan said: "Verify" .... with your own eyes and ears. Watch your wallet!

Depending on the puppy and each one is individual ... 4-6 months should get you through transition.

Good luck!

 

[Rick_C]

Don't want to get into a pissing match, but a JH???

And suddenly you're qualified to build the foundation for a FT dog???? Yikes.

Very different standards. Most serious FTers would send back an 8 week old puppy who could not pick up Junior marks.

Could I get some phone numbers? I'd like to be put on the list for their 9 week old washouts.

No - I don't have dogs.

Never trained or watched dogs training. Much less seen a FT.

If you hurry you'll make it to the liquor store for more booze before they
close regards,

Rick